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  1. #16

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Bill1975- Just FWIW, IMO it`s, uhm...not just you. Some seemingly light marring, so light as to be really tough to see (at least when you want to!) can still be *very* hard to correct. I dunno just why, but I`ve had to polish the [crap] out of certain paints just to correct "light holograms". Drove me nuts...my wife too as it took two of us to do the inspection ("move it a little more towards the sun...yeah, hold it right there while I look again...eh, still there...").
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  2. #17
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Bill1975 ---

    Something else, in my experiences with the compounds from the 60`s to present, I have learned several things - the most important one to me is that the product - whatever it is - needs to have a lot of time with the pad and paintwork, in order to complete the cycle and yield consistent, great results..

    I have seen many differing phases of how to do this including the way its done in auto body and paint shops, where I first learned how to do this as a kid..

    Many swear by lots of speed, lots of movement, quick, quick, and then wipe it off..

    I am of the opposite camp that likes to use adequate downward pressure, ( I only use a Makita Rotary) lower speed, and more time on the spot of the panel, so that the compound and pad get to complete their very important parts in this process..

    And to accomplish this, I sometimes need to spray a little water, pad conditioner, etc., on the work as I am doing it so that it doesn`t dry up before I have successfully corrected that spot and then use the same pad to almost clean up what little residue is left, ending up with really clean, clear, and glossy paint on that spot...

    Everyone will work on their own process and I am sure that they all turn out great, but this is how I have been doing it for decades, and I never have issues, swirls, holograms, etc., left over to deal with, and as a bonus, very little left over to wipe off and possibly inflict damage into the just corrected paint (especially on Jet Black)...

    So, think about how you do it, and try different ways and you will find the right one for your needs..
    Your machine is a great all around machine but there are much better ones that rotate more and that is what you need to have happen to get the product to really clean the defects off the paint surface..

    You CAN accomplish this with your Porter Cable but it will take a lot longer because the machine is really a great sander that someone tried using on paintwork probably over 30+ years ago or more.. And you have German Paint, as we have said before, its pretty darn hard - Mercedes paint being the hardest ever when they switched over to Ceramic based paint...
    Dan F
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  3. #18

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    lots of guys are totally convinced that you cannot get a flawless correction with a rotary/wool pad set up and thats just not so

    NOT saying its easy, you just have to know how to do it, takes years of exp.

    Easier/safer with a DA for those that dont have that
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  4. #19
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by re-tired View Post
    lots of guys are totally convinced that you cannot get a flawless correction with a rotary/wool pad set up and thats just not so

    NOT saying its easy, you just have to know how to do it, takes years of exp.
    Re-tired ---
    It is so, if one really wants to learn how..

    In fact there is no big secret either; just get the right foam pad with a good compound or polish, spray the pad with a pad conditioner first, prime the pad a little, put a few drops on the pad, work it around the area so you don`t get any spatter, start at 600 to get everything acquainted, keep the speeds below 1,000, apply downward pressure, work the product and pad together until the product is almost all gone, sometimes if it wants to dry up before its all gone, spray a little water or pad conditioner, onto the area, and keep working it until the pad cleans up almost everything, and stop and check your work..

    Lucky for me, I learned as a kid and back then there was only Rotary Power, and my Teacher did and demanded "perfect clarity and gloss"; and come to think of it, everyone that makes vehicles, etc., airplanes, etc., boats., etc., all use Rotary Power at the assembly line stage to clean up any owee`s quickly and perfectly..

    And it`s such a smooth running machine, no vibrations, jiggling, all that stuff that big power tools have (you know what I mean), that eventually ruined my hands and arm carpal tunnels so I had to get surgery on them all.. But since the surgery about 10 years ago, no more issues, its amazing what a little clean up of the carpal tunnel area can do...

    The newer well, over a decade old, foam/wool pads Lake Country makes are much better than the old standard wool and wool blend pads, but I hear that all the Airplane Detailers still like wool because its very fast, but you do have to know what you are doing to get the clarity and gloss without any defects.. And its Airplane paint, some of the hardest, nastiest, stuff around..
    Dan F
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  5. #20

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    Bill1975 --
    Glad to see you are making progress!

    I would recommend you put downward pressure on the machine and pad. and run the machine at 6, high as it will go..
    I put it on a 5 and did 4 section passes with more pressure. Last time it was 3-4 with lighter pressure. Having only done a handful of details on my car, I think I was trying to see how gentle I could be and still get satisfactory correction. You`re correct - German paint is rather hard to work with, yet it seems to mar all to easily sometimes.

    Let`s make sure you are cleaning your pads with something that is going to remove all the gunk that gets built up in them..
    I like to use and have had the best success with Snappy Clean, a powder based cleaner sold here, that really cleans great and rinses out way easier than any "soaps" that seem to bubble up in the pads forever..
    I will check this out. I have been using dish soap, and scrubbing them with a pad cleaning brush, rinsing, then throwing in the wash with my MF towels

    What are you using to clean your microfibers ???
    I have the best results using a product specifically made for them.. Sometimes, I will add a little Distilled White Vinegar into the Rinse Cycle and seems to help the towels get cleaner, stay absorbent, and very soft..
    Here is a link to a great product - https://www.autopia-carcare.com/poor...l#.Wocy1655X3g
    Laundry detergent in hot water, then dried on the lowest temp setting, no softeners used, though I do occasionally add a bit of vinegar like you suggest.

    It is also important to get microfibers that do not scratch.. I have only seen those yellow microfibers from Costco scratch really well when a Client brought in his Black Mercedes and it was covered in scratches from those towels, so dont use them ok ?
    Defintely. I`ve gotten a couple of freebie towels from the Meguiars clay bar kit, but have purchased all others through Autogeek or Autopia. SOme are several years old, and I don`t know what a good lifespan is, but it`s probably as good a time as any to get some new ones.

    It is true that some lights especially some LED`s are so bright that they actually hide some defects, so you need to have a balance of lights if youre doing this at night, etc.. I still have several older 250watt twin-bulb lights on stands that I like to use in addition to the LED light stands, and the 18 - 4-foot - 2-tube-shop lights in the ceiling...
    I`ve noticed this. I have a twin bulb holder, sometimes I use one, sometimes both, and while I have a stand to put them on, I`ll often hold them and look at the panel from different angles in a darkened garage. I`ve found this the most reliable method, but it seems finding light holograms in metallic paint can be tricky.

    Hopefully it will be sunny tomorrow and I can get another view. It rained a bit today, unfortunately, but with some strong sun I will know for sure how well I did. When I finished today I topped with Poli-Seal as my LSP, since Megs 26 has some fillers in it.
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  6. #21

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Regarding my choice of machine - I had heard about the PC 7424 for years as though it was a gold standard of sorts, so when I finally purchased one, I went with that just to see what the fuss is about. At some point I will upgrade but for now this will last me for a while. A bit apprehensive about using a rotary until my skill improves.

  7. #22

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    When you are checking your work use ipa or a panel wipe product like carpro eraser, gyeon prep, gtechnic panel wipe. A Good one that is versitale and can be used at prep dilution waterless wash or rinseless wash and other dilutions is McKees 37 N-914. Useing ONR I think is okey when useing other Optimum products in synergy. Otherwise it`s ad glossenhancer when you check your work and can maybe be decieving.

    As for a compound and polish I would test Sonax Cutmax and Sonax es04-06 polish or Sonax Perfect Finish. They have a one step also Sonax Cut and Finish. Then get a mf cutting pads of choice and thin pro pads or griots boss pads that also is thin. This makes your polisher very effective. If you need to go go really heavy compounding I would recommend this lake country thin wool pad. Then do test spot to see the perfect combo for the situation. It`s hard to get the paint flawless to the deeper defects. And for the most it`s only you that see it and know it`s there. So take a couple of steps back and look at the paint in the sun from a standing point of view. That is what others sees your car at and not close up with the perfect lighting.

    https://www.autopia-carcare.com/thin...l#.WohfW_xwE1I

    It`s hard to determind when a mf towel is done. You will be trust your instinct and feel when inspecting the mf towels. A good way is also to use the same pressure and aggitate cd disc and see if it marring it.
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  8. #23

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    I ordered the car pro eraser last night, along with the mf wash. Also a bottle of megs 205, some griots wax removal mf towels and Cobra 530 towels.

    I`m looking forward to see how the paint cleaner helps things next time.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
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  9. #24

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Bill1975- I`m surprised that you bought M205 after having those issues; the Trade Secret Oils in it render that stuff unbearable for me, won`t *EVER* struggle with any product like that again in this lifetime.

  10. #25

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Bill1975- I`m surprised that you bought M205 after having those issues; the Trade Secret Oils in it render that stuff unbearable for me, won`t *EVER* struggle with any product like that again in this lifetime.
    There are so many products out there, it`s overwhelming. I`m still at the stage where I`m figuring out what works best for me. The optimum works OK, and the 205 seems to be a popular product, thus I thought I would give it a try.

    I was considering some Menzerna products as well. But I`m always open to suggestions.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
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  11. #26

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill1975 View Post
    There are so many products out there, it`s overwhelming...
    Indeed! and, uhm...everybody`s fave is the best

    The optimum works OK, and the 205 seems to be a popular product, thus I thought I would give it a try...
    I was considering some Menzerna products as well...
    Heh heh, and *none* of those were/are to my liking! Not that *I* know what`s best for you either.

    I was just thinking that with oils/etc. having been an issue, you might want to go with something were that kind of thing isn`t much of a factor. Eh, it`s just one of my pet peeves; once I finish doing the correction, I want to know that it really is finished and I don`t want to [mess] around with residual artifacts like oils. That`s what sold me on HD Polish, but I haven`t tried the Polish + and IIRC that`s the version they`re selling now.

    Just FWIW, I`m kinda leaning towards the Griot`s Boss products for my next go-around.
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  12. #27

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Bumping this back up to report that M205 seems like a waste of money for me. Again, even after the last round of careful polishing and washing, I`m seeing some light holograms. 4 - 5 passes with a PC set on 6, an orange LC pad and M205 did little to nothing.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

  13. #28

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill1975 View Post
    Bumping this back up to report that M205 seems like a waste of money for me. Again, even after the last round of careful polishing and washing, I`m seeing some light holograms. 4 - 5 passes with a PC set on 6, an orange LC pad and M205 did little to nothing.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
    I polish an area for 10-15 minutes with a light blue foam pad at 800-1100 RPM w/o adding any more polish during this time and only then are all the marks gone.
    Since the radio is on I listen to 3 to 4 songs w/o adding more polish and afterwards I clean it all off with CarPro Eraser and see if I need to repeat the process.

    Four to five passes with M105 doesn`t do anything on my car either.

    ks
    2002 2V, Twin 60`s, Pi Heads, E85
    902HP @ 32psi, Silver Fox 4R70, Full Length 2.5" Exhaust, Mustang Dyno.



  14. #29
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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by KEVINS View Post
    I polish an area for 10-15 minutes with a light blue foam pad at 800-1100 RPM w/o adding any more polish during this time and only then are all the marks gone.
    Since the radio is on I listen to 3 to 4 songs w/o adding more polish and afterwards I clean it all off with CarPro Eraser and see if I need to repeat the process.

    Four to five passes with M105 doesn`t do anything on my car either.

    ks
    Wow, I’ve never needed to polish for anywhere near that long!

  15. #30

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Bill1975- This must be getting awfully frustrating! Hope it doesn`t get to the point where you just say "forget it!" (or a less polite version ) and either get rid of the car or quit trying to have its appearance please you.

    Eh, dunno if I`m being of any real help here, but anyhow, some sorta-random thoughts follow:

    -This is from *washing*, right? You`ve narrowed it down to that..panels OK, wash car, panels no longer OK..you`re calling the issue "holograms", but I consider those to be a uniquely *rotary-induced* phenomenon
    -I find it incredibly frustrating to do any real correction with a PC, but mine are the old ones that never did much of anything unless fitted with 3-4" pads
    -While others have done correction with M205 (hi, Kevin!), I only found it OK as a genuine Finishing Polish, something to use after something *else* has done all the visible correction

    And for the umpteenth time, since we are saying "holograms", while some folks are apparently born Rotary-Meisters, IMO most non-pros will never do enough correction to truly master hologram-free finishing out with a rotary. I`ve used mine for countless hours over *decades*, and despite not being the dullest knife in the drawer by any measure, I can`t do it reliably enough to even bother with those machines any more. And I`ve seen so many "hologram-free" finishes that weren`t under the right inspection conditions...

    But eh, that gets us right back to "What`s really causing those things?!?"

 

 
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