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  1. #16

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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    Ah, lots of stuff in this thread worth of discussion (well, IMO at least..but hey I like talking maintenance washes ).

    Heh heh, I`ll go longer between washes than you folks would ever believe...as long as I don`t mind how it looks I just let it go. I do Accumulatorette`s A8 pretty frequently though, if only so it doesn`t get too marred up if...OK, *when*...somebody (else) touches it (accidentally). I do often clean just the wheels/tires though, and windshields are done almost daily.

    Dirty cars don`t bother me the way marred ones do, though yes indeed the former can lead to the latter!

    Touching- I don`t mind touching it a lot, as long as each touch is too gentle to cause marring. *I* do best by being so gentle that it takes MANY touches to get things truly clean; as long as each one is gentle enough, OK. When I try to do it with fewer passes I have to be more aggressive and then I get more marring. Just IME, but that`s how it goes for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan
    I`m glad you`re on the pressure washer band wagon at least. For awhile you were using something with your compressor, right?
    Yeah, after my Karcher experiences and with the shop so overcrowded I`d been without a pressure washer for years. But with fewer, uhm...accumulated vehicles...the cheap little thing (that keeps working) I got for Christmas with it`s minimal power (which means no overspray) is working out great! I can get by awfully well with just DI pressure washing as long as the FK1000P is reasonably fresh.

    I still like my siphon-feed sprayer that hooks to the compressor and I still use it. The Tornador did *NOT* replace it as expected

    I`m currently considering a different sprayer (another siphoning one for the compressor), this one by Lonn, who makes the best bend-to-flow nozzles in the business IMO. I *really* want to streamline my wash process and cut time/effort. I`d love to get a regular maintenance wash down to just 3-4 hours, though that`s not really likely.

  2. #17
    PRND[S]'s Avatar
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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    SWETM, which foam product are you talking about?

  3. #18

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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    Quote Originally Posted by `PRND[S
    ;2123855`]SWETM, which foam product are you talking about?
    It`s a domestically detailer shop who has it`s own brand here in Sweden. That`s alkaline based prewash but I think a citrus degreaser can do a good job also. If you can get hold of Bilt Hamber products I can strongly recommend their Surfex HD or their Autofoam both can be used in foamcannon. Surfex HD is a versitale product you can dilute 1:100 to neat and you can use the weaker for light dirt in household to inside the car and to the paint. In neat you get even tar removed and to be wax safe over 1:20 is recommended. I use in the foamcannon 1:9 And works great with to get the road film almost compleatly gone.

    If you have meguiars apc or super degreaser test if it cleans of with no residue on the paint left. Then I see no wrong with dilute it in a foamcannon with your favorit car wash soap. I would test super degreaser in 1:10 and ad the amount of car soap you use to have in the foamcannon bottle first. If it`s not enough you can go as high as neat with super degreaser as the foamcannon dilutes 1:20 as max with the max blend setting.

    This is the prewash I use on a truck that has no lsp and hasnt been washed in a long time. Foamed it on a dry car to get the most out of clinging ability and let it dwell for over 7min.

    Then power wash from bottom to top and use the spray pattern to clean with.


    Here is after the rinse with power wash.

    And after the tar remover.

    Then I foamed a lsp with 20ml of a siloxane based concentrate and 600ml of water in the foamcannon bottle and rinsed directly.




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  4. #19

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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    Found it!

    This is the video I was thinking of when this topic came up - "whether or not foaming a car really does anything"

    My understanding is spraying the foam on the car before doing a rinse (i.e., pretreat) enhances the amount of dirt removed during the initial rinsing step.

    This video seems to prove-up that logic, even with "regular" car wash soap (the has other videos that test other soaps in the same manner)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4p0vjGB860
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  5. #20
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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    Quote Originally Posted by nickclark08 View Post
    Found it!

    This is the video I was thinking of when this topic came up - "whether or not foaming a car really does anything"

    My understanding is spraying the foam on the car before doing a rinse (i.e., pretreat) enhances the amount of dirt removed during the initial rinsing step.

    This video seems to prove-up that logic, even with "regular" car wash soap (the has other videos that test other soaps in the same manner)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4p0vjGB860
    Great comparison video. Can`t argue that it does help in that situation. Wonder what the underlying LSP is on the car though, I really never have stuff stick on my car like that,even if I go a month between washes.

  6. #21

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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    I should add that I watched a few more vids in the playlist, and some soaps don`t seem to have an added benefit.

    I guess I`m playing both sides of the fence on this one - I agree with you that strength / type of LSP plays a huge factor on what gets released during the rinse stage, foam or not. Who knows? maybe that`s why some of the videos show no help from foam, even using products like Megs APC and Super Degreaser, while others show a marked benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Great comparison video. Can`t argue that it does help in that situation. Wonder what the underlying LSP is on the car though, I really never have stuff stick on my car like that,even if I go a month between washes.

  7. #22

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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    I think there`s two distinct types of foaming:

    1. Foaming before initial initial rinse
    2. Foaming after initial rinse

    For #1, in my opinion, you don`t want to use the same shampoo you use in your bucket. You want a dedicated snowfoam product, paint-safe APC, or something like Bug Squash. If you`re using a snowfoam, you want a foam that breaks down and slides off the car, not one that sits on the car like shaving cream forever. You will still follow up with a 2-bucket wash since this is not supposed to be a "touchless" wash.

    For #2, the purpose is lubrication for you wash mitt. Here you can foam with the same shampoo you use in your bucket, or foam a panel at a time and wash.

    This is assuming you`re using a pressure washer regardless since the topic isn`t pressure washer vs hose. You pick either #1 or #2 or you can combine them in a sequence. I most often use #1 with a prewash spray, as the car is fairly grungy before I wash it. Keep this in context, you`re not going to be soaking the car in Bug Squash or similar if it`s just dusty.

    Now if you enjoy foaming your car with shampoo and rinsing it off, I`m not going to argue. I`ve just never found it effective.

    To complicate matters more, I look at Accumulator`s boars hair brush technique like a super lsp-safe #1. You get a little more dirt off than rinsing alone but you still follow up with a wash mitt.

  8. #23
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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    Keep it up guys, this is what I love about Autopia, the great discussion that lets us see both sides of the coin. The definitely appears to not be a black and white issue.

  9. #24

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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    What I`d like to see (noting my internet-cynicism ) is a test on the same vehicle, same level of soiling on the test panels/etc., same shampoo- the variable being between one foaming system that gives long-dwell shaving cream type foam and the other foaming system that`s more watery. I wonder whether the presumably extended dwell time from the shaving cream type is offset by having (again, presumably as I just don`t know) more air/less liquid in that stuff.

  10. #25

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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    Mr. A,

    I would think the more shaving cream type foam would be more concentrated (i.e., stronger), if this is implying less water used than the more runny scenario you presented. Therefore, the stronger soap would clean better.

    I`m just offering a thought - I honestly don`t know myself.

    Nick

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    What I`d like to see (noting my internet-cynicism ) is a test on the same vehicle, same level of soiling on the test panels/etc., same shampoo- the variable being between one foaming system that gives long-dwell shaving cream type foam and the other foaming system that`s more watery. I wonder whether the presumably extended dwell time from the shaving cream type is offset by having (again, presumably as I just don`t know) more air/less liquid in that stuff.

  11. #26
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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    Last wash I did on my car I 1st foamed it with Gyeon foam dry then rinsed. Then I foamed it again and washed more like a rinseless with a dozen or so Eagles in my bucket with reset as a shampoo. I was surprised how I could not see the Eagles picking up ant dirt even tho when I started the car was quite dirty since I had put on over 600 miles on it a few days earlier. The roads were quite varied from wet sand and some gravel back roads.

    I did film the 2nd foam and rinse just not the actual washing or 1st foam if you are interested. Here is the link to the vid.I think it says more about the CSL/Exo I used for an LSP than poaming tho.

    https://youtu.be/9K3klz5wfKg


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  12. #27

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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    Off topic or on, but is anyone here using any commercial grade foam/soap in your PW that is foam/touchless routine .....

    Granted the touchless bays are just that, acid followed by akaline, since this is par for the course on this thread, is anyone using any ~strong~ stuff to employ a touchless routine.

    Ahem, cough, cough - jack frost is right around the corner.

  13. #28
    PRND[S]'s Avatar
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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    I think shaving-cream like foam is largely useless since most of it never comes into contact with the paint surface and any contaminants on it -- 95% of the product and its cleaning agents go to waste. Thinner, runnier foam contains lots of H2O, which is the most versatile solvent in the known universe. If a thick foam somehow beats a runny one, then it is going to be due to the solvents in it, not due to the consistency.

  14. #29

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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    Quote Originally Posted by `PRND[S
    ;2123920`]I think shaving-cream like foam is largely useless since most of it never comes into contact with the paint surface and any contaminants on it -- 95% of the product and its cleaning agents go to waste. Thinner, runnier foam contains lots of H2O, which is the most versatile solvent in the known universe. If a thick foam somehow beats a runny one, then it is going to be due to the solvents in it, not due to the consistency.
    This is my understanding too. You want the foam to break down so the detergents are refreshed on the surface and the dirt starts to slide away. If you watch the imported snowfoam products most of them are not super thick. There`s a sweet spot where you get some dwell time but by the time you`re rinsing most of the foam has broken down.

  15. #30

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    Re: Foaming, is it just all bubbles?

    Quote Originally Posted by nickclark08 View Post
    Mr. A,

    I would think the more shaving cream type foam would be more concentrated (i.e., stronger), if this is implying less water used than the more runny scenario you presented. Therefore, the stronger soap would clean better.

    I`m just offering a thought - I honestly don`t know myself.

    Nick
    Apples to apples yeah. If you`re taking shampoo and mixing it so weak that it`s barely foaming then throwing in more shampoo makes a stronger mixture. (extreme example, but just for my point)

    Now if you`re spraying Meg`s non-acid wheel cleaner on your paint (not that I`d recommend it) i`d expect that to clean more than your strongest shampoo mixture even though there isn`t much foam.

    There`s a few variables here: dwell time (foam), concentration (dilution ratio), and detergency (shampoo vs snowfoam vs apc, etc)

    All just my opinion though

 

 
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