Holograms with 3401

[Mr_P2R]

Hi all,

Now before you laugh, yes, I am not as acquainted with this Flex as I wanted to be, however, I do have solid experience with a buddy`s Meguairs DA on other cars. I did get this Flex 3401 kit used from a fellow Volvo owner for a price lower than having someone else to detail the car, so why not try. I know the 3401 is different than most DA`s with it`s forced rotation and hot running, torquey motor

Anyways I am having hologram issues with polishing this Volvo paint with this 3401, I feel like I am using a rotary or something because of this. Paint has been clayed and Iron-X and everything, so no issue there. I am also using very plush towels to remove the polish after along with a spritz of detailer.

The paint is largely defect free apart from some light-medium swirls here and there and the normal holograms from wiping (I leaf blow to dry). I am trying to get those out plus I want to move onto another sealant, GlossCoat on there right now which is largely intact.

I am using 3D AAT polish along with SF3500 with a mix of black Hex pads, white/black LC hybrid pads, LC black/pink and also CG MF pads all with the same result. I also tried FG400 which yielded even nastier holograms. All of these polishes are over a year old though and they seem to dry out pretty quick, I spritz with water but still dries out and is very hard to remove after. They don`t go clear as I polish, this may be part of the issue; I bought a fresh Megs `Swirl Remover 2.0` and that yielded almost no holograms at level 5 speed w/LC black.

I am taking my time, just using the weight of the machine and keeping it level. I do two slow passes at level 4 speed; even if I speed my hand or the machine up, I still hologram. I have tried a mix of polishes and pads and speeds and movements with no avail so I give up, what is the secret to this machine? Or do I just suck with it? I did fine with a normal DA but I don`t have access to it anymore.

What speed should I be using for final polishes on this 3401? Should I add force on it or take some off? Should I lean it towards the end or focus on level? Should I do less passes? Should I spritz with water as I go? Does anyone have a good combo with Volvo paint?

Anything helps at this point I am honestly pretty frustrated. I wish I had more time to practice with it but I spent the past few months doing mechanical upgrades/maintenance on her.

I honestly think my AAT and Menzerna polishes have gone sour from sitting so long which is causing this but there may be a deadly error I am committing with this machine

[Mr_P2R]

Picture of it, best I could get. In normal light it looks extremely glossy and defect free, but in the dark with a bright light it`s another story

[LawrenceSA]

When you say 2 passes, do you mean you are literally moving the polisher over your buffing area, say moving up and down once, then left to right once. If so, I think you are under-working the Menzerna (haven`t used 3D AAT so can`t comment on that) - typically I am in the 6 to 8 passes range on the 3401 with Menz polishes.

Are you immediately removing the polish after buffing your section, or waiting for the polish residue to dry and then removing?

Are you using a dry towel to wipe off, or is it dampened at all - if so, with what?

I doubt it is the machine itself causing the issue - I`ve worked on very soft paint and very hard paint, and stuff in between with the 3401 and have never encountered your issue before?

To me those look more like `wiping` marring than holograms/buffer trails?

[etnops]

Looks like marring to me. Perhaps from a dry buffing pad. Have you primed the entire surface of the pads, before adding the working product? Meaning, have you wiped a thin layer of product over the entire buffing pad surface, so any contact the pad has with paint, has lubricating product?

A spritz of detail spray on the buffing pad, can also help.

As Lawrence mentions above, buffing towels can cause this as well. And removing the product before the buffing cycle ends, too (for DAT polishes).
Doesn`t explain why AAT is leaving marring tho....that`s a SMAT abrasive. I`d put money on your buffing towels, or a dry pad as the culprit.

Best of luck.

[Mr_P2R]

I do prime the pad with some 3D Final Touch detail spray, enough to make it wet. But even with a microfiber pad it does this which I know was fully saturated.

For wiping I wipe it down right away and I use a good amount of either IPA mix or final touch to lift off, it`s always hard to remove even though I did a light pass.

And yes Lawrence, I do go up and down once then left and right once, very slow.

[Accumulator]

I`ve never used the polish in question, so maybe the following doesn`t apply...but anyhow, some sorta-random thoughts follow and maybe they`ll be of some help:

I`ve never been able to achieve the Final Finish I want with my Flex 3401, no matter what. I only use mine for aggressive work and switch to something else ASAP.

I`ve never had actual holgrams from the Flex 3401, but I have had a type of micromarring that is awfully similar (and that might be what`s happening here).

Wiping off nondiminishing abrasives can be tricky since they *always* cut and can be surprisingly aggressive once they`ve dried out.

Diminishing abrasives generally don`t have that issue, at least once they`ve thoroughly broken down (as long as they break down to something fine enough).

M09 v2.0 does far more filling than correction, in fact I`ve never achieved *any* real correction out of it unless using a rotary (which leaves holograms for me). M09 often fills well enough IME to conceal holograms, but they`re still there. And I generally don`t like Meguiar`s older Mirror Glaze abrasives on b/c paint, though they`re sure great on single stage.

I never liked the LC Black pads, but I never used them all that much since they left such a terrible impression on me (not even for LSPs/AIOs).

[Mr_P2R]

Interesting, I appreciate the feedback.

I got my hands on a spare S60R door that Ill clean and clay and use that to practice instead of my own R, there`s a meet I want to go to this weekend so I`ll go then wash it and resume next week.

It seems (to me) the Flex is a hybrid between a rotary and DA and is harder to get perfect like you said, especially for me. I think I`ll use it for the tough stuff (had to wet sand some parts) then I`ll use a DA to finish to perfection. I can pick up a Torq 22D locally, yes it`s not the best but it`l do for me.

I also spoke to a fellow pro detailer/Volvo owner and he said Volvo paint is medium hardness which makes sense so I`ll try some mixes and post up the results later for future searchers

[rlmccarty2000]

I`m not a Flex user, but microfiber pads are not recommended.

[dcjredline]

I`m not a Flex user, but microfiber pads are not recommended.

That`s news to me! I`ve used MF pads with mine.

[Mr_P2R]

Well I guess it`s the way I`m using it. I did a test using the same pad/polish/arm speed/time/approx OPM. White hex pad with 3D AAT polish. The 3401 panel had some micromarring like I am complaining about but the 22D panel was perfectly perfect. I heavily sprayed IPA and used a thick cloth on both to eliminate towel marks.

I suppose it takes extra finesse to totally finish down with a 3401? I might some day be able to who knows but for now I`ll use the 3401 to cut down and the 22D to finish it off.

Thanks for everyones input

[dcjredline]

I`m not a Flex user, but microfiber pads are not recommended.

Where have you read this? I would like to know.

[Accumulator]

I suppose it takes extra finesse to totally finish down with a 3401?

I bet you`d be happier with how the Flex 3401 finishes out with a different product/pad combo...but I sure wouldn`t give it a second thought since the 22D works as a follow-up.

[Mary B]

3D AAT dried up on me every time, the wipe off was like cement powder.
I was gonna chuck it off the balcony but it`s a 32oz.... Maybe another try is in order first.

[2quikta]

I`ve never tried anything else, but the tried and true menzerna and LC hybrid pads have always worked fine on my 3401

[jrock645]

3D AAT dried up on me every time, the wipe off was like cement powder.
I was gonna chuck it off the balcony but it`s a 32oz.... Maybe another try is in order first.

The biggest thing with AAT is that it`s only good for about 2 passes. Really easy to overwork. That said, it only NEEDS 2 passes to correct and break down. But, you can add a drop or two of something like M205 to extend the work time and it gets much easier to use.

Also, AAT seems better suited for rotary work than with a DA.