Zaino AND Carnauba Wax

[mattio]

New to this site -- and, by the way, it is fantastic -- so I`ve just been reading for a few days. Seems to be a lot of discussion about whether Zaino products alone are better than Carnauba wax. Equally passionate opinions on both sides. So today I did a little test. My daughter has been in Europe for a few months, and her 2007 Honda Civic has been sitting at the top of our driveway, under a tree, for all that time. I wanted to welcome her back with a nice detailing of her car, so I got on that today. Here`s what I did: I washed it with Dawn (using the two bucket system), then I dried it with cotton towels.Then I washed it with Zaino`s Z7 Car Wash (two bucket system) and dried it with cotton towels. Then I polished it with Z2 Car Polish and buffed that off with detail towels. It looked great at that point. Then I waxed it with Pinnacle Souveran Carnauba Paste Wax. I was worried -- would this mixing of products result in a disaster? Well, no. As I hand-buffed the wax (by the way, after doing this in 95 degree LA heat I`m DEFINITELY getting a machine) I was actually astonished with how deep and rich the finish was. As you can see in the photo, even the refection of the palm trees are vivid. I guess you just have to find a system that works for you. I love Zaino. And now, I love Carnauba wax, too.


`

[Accumulator]

Kerouac- Welcome to Auopia!


`


Glad the car turned out well, bet your daughter will be very happy with it.` As I can seldom resist offering advice (unsolicited in this case, hope I don`t give offense `), here`s some stuff that comes to mind:


`


If you`re gonna wash with Dawn (I`m not`one of the many`Dawn Haters here, though I question why anybody would use it with all the better alternatives out there..) it`s better to wash with the "regular"

shampoo first rather than second; Dawn lacks lubricity compared to carwash shampoos, and you want as much lubricity as possible when washing the (abrasive) dirt off the paint.` If you then need to strip/do a "super-wash" you could`use the Dawn/etc. afterwards with less chance of causing wash-induced marring. (Note that Dawn`s wax/etc.-stripping abilities are grossly overrated, so much so that I sometimes wonder why anybody thinks it works well enough to bother with; it`ll strip something like`Souveran, but so will a strong mix of any regular shampoo.)


`


Speaking of Souvern- I use Souveran on one of my cars, great looking stuff!` Very short-lived however, basically needing redone at almost every wash, and it provides virtually zero protection against etching from bugs/bird bombs....just warning you ` It`s a "beauty wax" IMO, I gave up on using it for daily drivers way`back in the `90s!


`


While I do really like doing LSPs (Last Step Products, i.e., waxes and sealants) by machine, I`ll caution you that it won`t speed up the process, at least not with something like Souveran.` It`s more a matter of changing the nature of the`motions/effort involved. `It might be worth doing if you used something like Collinite 476S for your wax topper (and that, BTW, would be my choice for this application).` Note that if you apply the Souveran thinly enough (which is the "proper" way to do it, though it`s certainly not mandatory) it`ll go on/off so easily that IMO it`s actually *easier* than doing it by machine.` And when it comes to applying *any* LSP, "thin" is the way to go; most people use many, MANY times more product than they should.


`


Are you happy using cotton towels to dry?` Even with my softest ones (Concours Buffing Towels,`"CBT"s, AKA "DFT"s, `which are a lot softer than something like Christy or other Egyptian cotton) they`ll instill minute marring in most autopaints.` I do *far* better with microfiber ("MF") drying towels.` I know Zaino advocates cotton, but I doubt you`ll find anybody here who thinks that`s a good idea.


`


But hey...if you`re happy with what you`re doing now, don`t let anybody (myself included) talk you into changing anything!` That was a nice thing to do for your daughter, and I`m glad you came across Autopia.

[mattio]

Kerouac- Welcome to Auopia!


`


Glad the car turned out well, bet your daughter will be very happy with it.` As I can seldom resist offering advice (unsolicited in this case, hope I don`t give offense `), here`s some stuff that comes to mind:


`


If you`re gonna wash with Dawn (I`m not`one of the many`Dawn Haters here, though I question why anybody would use it with all the better alternatives out there..) it`s better to wash with the "regular"

shampoo first rather than second; Dawn lacks lubricity compared to carwash shampoos, and you want as much lubricity as possible when washing the (abrasive) dirt off the paint.` If you then need to strip/do a "super-wash" you could`use the Dawn/etc. afterwards with less chance of causing wash-induced marring. (Note that Dawn`s wax/etc.-stripping abilities are grossly overrated, so much so that I sometimes wonder why anybody thinks it works well enough to bother with; it`ll strip something like`Souveran, but so will a strong mix of any regular shampoo.)


`


Speaking of Souvern- I use Souveran on one of my cars, great looking stuff!` Very short-lived however, basically needing redone at almost every wash, and it provides virtually zero protection against etching from bugs/bird bombs....just warning you ` It`s a "beauty wax" IMO, I gave up on using it for daily drivers way`back in the `90s!


`


While I do really like doing LSPs (Last Step Products, i.e., waxes and sealants) by machine, I`ll caution you that it won`t speed up the process, at least not with something like Souveran.` It`s more a matter of changing the nature of the`motions/effort involved. `It might be worth doing if you used something like Collinite 476S for your wax topper (and that, BTW, would be my choice for this application).` Note that if you apply the Souveran thinly enough (which is the "proper" way to do it, though it`s certainly not mandatory) it`ll go on/off so easily that IMO it`s actually *easier* than doing it by machine.` And when it comes to applying *any* LSP, "thin" is the way to go; most people use many, MANY times more product than they should.


`


Are you happy using cotton towels to dry?` Even with my softest ones (Concours Buffing Towels,`"CBT"s, AKA "DFT"s, `which are a lot softer than something like Christy or other Egyptian cotton) they`ll instill minute marring in most autopaints.` I do *far* better with microfiber ("MF") drying towels.` I know Zaino advocates cotton, but I doubt you`ll find anybody here who thinks that`s a good idea.


`


But hey...if you`re happy with what you`re doing now, don`t let anybody (myself included) talk you into changing anything!` That was a nice thing to do for your daughter, and I`m glad you came across Autopia.

Hey: Thanks for all the information. Still on the learning curve, so every bit of knowledge helps. My daughter was delighted with the car. Let me ask you about something else. I have a 1965 Corvette Coupe (Nassau Blue -- not original paint), and I`m trying to come up with the best approach for detailing that car. Any opinions? Advice? Thanks again.

[Accumulator]

Kerouac- Was the `vette (nice car BTW!) repainted with basecoat/clearcoat or single stage?


`


It doesn`t *really* matter all that much, but some single stage paintjobs respond extremely well to certain old-school products.


`


If it`s a real garage-queen, you could do worse than the Souveran (other than that need to constantly redo it, which some might consider a pleasure on a car like that).


`


In any case, other than the usual "just keepingit clean", `there are two primary factors that determine how a car looks, and both are related to marring (swirls/scratches/etc.):


`


-correcting the paint: smoothing out/reducing/removing any existing marring and finish-polishing to obtain a high-gloss finish, which requires the use of abrasive products (and, for practical purposes, a polisher) so the paint is what we Autopias call "marring-free".` This is the biggie with regard to time/effort


`


-maintaining that marring-free condition, which is (IMO) primarily dependent on good wash techniques.` This is the biggie with regard to actually being able to live with a great looking car and it`s a lot more challenging than one might think


`


Both of those topics are far more involved than I can get into here/now, but there`s a ton of material about them here at Autopia.


`


VERY short version:


`


-wash car and inspect to determine current condition


-decontaminate car using either clay, or the newer "nanoskin" technology products, or a chemical decontamination system (my preference; I use ValuGard "ABC")


-compound car to remove/reduce significant marring


-polish car with milder abrasives to remove any micromarring from compound and to bring up the gloss


-apply LSP


-maintain with proper wash techniques, reLSPing before it`s really necessary to stay ahead of the curve


`


And then there`s the interior to deal with, and some of us are also into keeping the undercarriage and engine compartment nice....there`s just no end to this stuff


`


Oh, and the popular topic of "which LSP to use?!?" gets overplayed IMO.` >95% of how a vehicle looks is determined by the prep (that compounding/polishing) and which wax/sealant you use is far less consequential, though some products like Zaion and Souveran do have their "signature looks" that can tweak the final appearance.`

[mattio]

Kerouac- Was the `vette (nice car BTW!) repainted with basecoat/clearcoat or single stage?


`


It doesn`t *really* matter all that much, but some single stage paintjobs respond extremely well to certain old-school products.


`


If it`s a real garage-queen, you could do worse than the Souveran (other than that need to constantly redo it, which some might consider a pleasure on a car like that).


`


In any case, other than the usual "just keepingit clean", `there are two primary factors that determine how a car looks, and both are related to marring (swirls/scratches/etc.):


`


-correcting the paint: smoothing out/reducing/removing any existing marring and finish-polishing to obtain a high-gloss finish, which requires the use of abrasive products (and, for practical purposes, a polisher) so the paint is what we Autopias call "marring-free".` This is the biggie with regard to time/effort


`


-maintaining that marring-free condition, which is (IMO) primarily dependent on good wash techniques.` This is the biggie with regard to actually being able to live with a great looking car and it`s a lot more challenging than one might think


`


Both of those topics are far more involved than I can get into here/now, but there`s a ton of material about them here at Autopia.


`


VERY short version:


`


-wash car and inspect to determine current condition


-decontaminate car using either clay, or the newer "nanoskin" technology products, or a chemical decontamination system (my preference; I use ValuGard "ABC")


-compound car to remove/reduce significant marring


-polish car with milder abrasives to remove any micromarring from compound and to bring up the gloss


-apply LSP


-maintain with proper wash techniques, reLSPing before it`s really necessary to stay ahead of the curve


`


And then there`s the interior to deal with, and some of us are also into keeping the undercarriage and engine compartment nice....there`s just no end to this stuff


`


Oh, and the popular topic of "which LSP to use?!?" gets overplayed IMO.` >95% of how a vehicle looks is determined by the prep (that compounding/polishing) and which wax/sealant you use is far less consequential, though some products like Zaion and Souveran do have their "signature looks" that can tweak the final appearance.`

Wow, I asked the right guy. Thanks again. I`ll start educating myself about the various things you`ve mentioned and see how it goes. As far as the paint on the car goes, I`m not sure what kind it is. I`ll dig through the paperwork and documents I got from the previous owner to see. It`s a great looking paint job, though, so I`m not sure compounding will be needed after claying. I appreciate your help.`

[Accumulator]

Kerouac- Glad to be of help.


`


If the `vette is metallic, it`s probably b/c, and most `60s-vintage cars that`ve been repainted somewhat recently are done with that type of paint.` High-quality single-stage paint (which your car origninally had) is pretty uncommon these days, and has been for quite a while.`` How to tell for sure- when you polish it, if you get pigment transfer on your polishing medium that means you do *not* have b/c (because when you polish off clearcoat, it basically comes off "clear" so you don`t see color on the polishing medium).


`


Don`t take the "compound"/"compounding" too, uhm....seriously.` For practical purposes, a compound is merely a more-aggressive polish and you might be surprised by how aggressive you need to get to correct even seemingly minor flaws (at least in a timely manner).

[Bert]

To determine if the paint could use a compound polish, how does the sun reflect off the paint? Do you see a nice reflection of the sun with very little marring on the paint? If so, no compound polishing needed. However, if the suns reflection is gritty and you see circular swirls around it, the paint could use some compound polishing.


If it does need compound polishing, DO NOT TRY TO DO SO BY HAND,buy a dual action polished and not the cheap ones at Wal-Mart/AutoZone etc.. Go on to YouTube and watch some videos on polishing paint.

[Accumulator]

bert31- Heh heh, now you stop that!` He thinks things look great, no reason for him to look for problems he doesn`t know he has ` Trying to pass along that Curse of Autopia, aren`t you


`


It`s like...a friend of mine was all proud of how he`d detailed his car.` To me it looked like total [crap] but I bit my tongue and decided to not burst his bubble..."yeah, that looks really good."

[Bert]

Yeah, I remember the first time I "detailed" my car seven years ago.` All I used was Sonus wash, the Sonus greet clay, Meguiars Medallion Paint Cleaner and Meguairs #20 and I thought it looked like`a show car - lol.` I made the mistake of continuing to read on this board and way too much money later, I have a nice looking car for being 15 years old.` LOL