RAV4 - Rust - Wheels & Underbody

[contactparag]

My car has good amount of rust under body.

Main body hasn`t been rusted anywhere & while driving also it`s smooth (no noise).



I am planning to fix the rust at home only. (novice here)

I checked VHT rust converter on Amazon which will convert rusted areas to black.

After brushing/sanding, should I just spray that where ever needed (except wheels)?



What about wheels? Does it look like Stainless steel?

I have to remove wheels & remove rust.

Will rust-oleum clear spray be effective?

[Richard Grasa]

Take a wire brush and scrub those rusted areas really good to remove anything that will flake off. Then spray them down with multiple light coats of the rust converter. Wait at least 24 hours and then spray some good primer over the rust converter (2 part epoxy primer would be best). The wheels are not stainless, just plain steel. Do the same process on the wheels and then follow up with a couple coats of silver wheel paint, as you will have spots of primer after you take care of the rust. Don`t spray anything on the exhaust as it will become a fire hazard.



I`ve never used VHT, but I`ve used a couple of the products that Eastwood sells with pretty good results. You want to primer over the spots after you spray the rust converter on them, because I have found that if you don`t, it will start to rust again after a while. Epoxy primer is the best since it has good rust prevention capabilities. Something like lacquer primer would just rust right through again.



There`s also an auto body section on the forum. You may get more responses if you post this there as well.

[Accumulator]

I do stuff like this on my used vehicles. The tricky part is getting results that hold up over time, and it *CAN* be tricky unless you use the right stuff...voice of expensive experience as I`ve found out what doesn`t work (or at least what isn`t "Accumulator-proof") the hard way.



Skip the Rustoleum stuff.



Rust converters only do so much and IME (pretty extensive ) they won`t do what most people expect `em to.



Still not a bad thing, but here`s how I go about it, with two versions depending on how Autopian (Autopian version marked with " * ")you want to get about it:



-Clean thoroughly, get any grease/etc. off

-Scrape/wire brush off the worst/loosest rust

-Treat with "rust killer" chemical. IME the best one is Rust Bullet`s "Metal Blast", and I consider it best by a country mile

-*use a *GOOD* rust converter (I like Eastwood`s) *

- *paint everything, including the remaining rust, with Eastwood`s Black Rust Encapsulator (two coats) *

This stuff is, IME, *MUCH* better than stuff like POR-15 and is fine without a topcoat (but you can topcoat if you like, preferably with enamel not lacquer)

---OR---

-"paint" everything, including the remaining rust with Eastwood`s Black Heavy Duty Anti-Rust (an undercoating-type product that dries almost exactly like paint. You can do it the Pro way with an undercoating gun or use their spray cans, and you can brush it on in tricky places as needed. VERY user-friendly...like you can`t believe for such an effective product



Note I didn`t mention any primer!



Either approach (Rust Encapsulator or Black Heavy Duty Anti-Rust) will hold up great for ages with minimal touching-up (but you *will* have to do a little of that now and then). Some people would do both, but IMO that`s not really necessary. On this project I`d probably just use the BHDA-R. Again, these products are very user-friendly (utterly Accumulator-proof) and effective. I`ve observed vehicles I did with them over years (including Ohio winters) and I`m absolutely conviced that this approach, and this specific mix of products, is the way to go.



For the wheels (and the brake stuff if you want to do that too), I`d use this: RustSeal Galvanized Steel by KBS Coatings - Stop Rust - Rust Paint

[Richard Grasa]

I guess there`s more than one way to skin a cat. My method has also held up well on my vehicles for a long time using the epoxy primer as a top coat, but Accumulator`s Autopian method sounds much more thorough and will prob last even longer. I guess it depends on how much you are willing to put into it and how much you want to spend on it.



I`ll have to give the Eastwood Black Heavy Duty Anti-Rust product a try next time I do this. I`ve used the Rust Encapsulator and a few other products and they always end up rusting through again after a while, which is why I epoxy primer over it which takes care of the problem.

[Accumulator]

ExplicitDetails- Sure, lots of different approaches and it`s not like one is right and the others wrong! If it works *for that person* then it works in my book.



Heh heh I make a big deal out of "it`s not idiot-proof, but it is Accumulator-proof", but that doesn`t mean that everything that works for me will work for everyone else who goes about it carefully :grinno:



And yeah, there`s a, uhm...broad spectrum of how-to here, from quick and simple to nutty perfectionism.



Interesting that a) the Rust Encapsulator didn`t control the rust for you and that b) the epoxy primer solved the problem. Hmm :think: again, lots of variables.. Maybe I do just "that little bit more prep that makes the difference" or maybe you were just unlucky. Or maybe it was a serious case of that "need for occasional touch-ups" thing in an especially bad way. But I oughta rethink the capabilities of that primer, sounds like really good stuff.



For situations where the POR-15/Rust Encapsulator stuff doesn`t work, I use Rust Bullet (at least three coats). I tell ya, *that stuff works*. But it`s a PIA in that you *gotta* do the additional coats (and do `em right) and the silver color might need topcoating if it doesn`t look appropriate (which can be another PIA to do right). And IME it tends to go on really thick (makes me think of "latex house paint", but it`s not really *that* bad). Good for those "gotta fix this!" situations though.



The Black Heavy Duty Anti-Rust *is*, IMO worth a try, but sheesh I`m just such a fan-boy for the stuff that of course I think so. Prep as if you were gonna "paint it properly" and that stuff just might be an easy option for you. If nothing else, it`s really "clean" as undercoatings/rustproofing products go, at least ones it dries. If you do try it, I`d sure like to hear how it works out for you.

[Ron Ketcham]

Clean it the best you can, spray the ValuGard anti rust material, let it set for a few minutes, then apply the ValuGard Undercoating over the Anti-Rust.

That seals it, and no moisture can get to the metal.

This is what many states are now doing to their school buses that have been in service a few years, due to the magnesium cloride problem.

Districts in Kentucky have been doing this for over 5 years and the savings have been immense.

This is not for show cars, etc, but if one plans on keeping their driver on the road, least expensive and most effective.



Grumpy

[Accumulator]

Ron Ketcham- Noting that you know I`m a fan of the AI/VG rustproofing stuff....I sure wish they`d come out with a black version that`d look nice on exposed areas. For stuff like the (exposed sections) of SUV framerails, I just gotta go with the Eastwood Black HDAR since it looks like, well, black paint.

[Ron Ketcham]

To small of market, not enough volume.

Grumpy

[Accumulator]

To small of market, not enough volume.

Grumpy

Yeah....makes sense.

[Richard Grasa]

ExplicitDetails- Sure, lots of different approaches and it`s not like one is right and the others wrong! If it works *for that person* then it works in my book.



Heh heh I make a big deal out of "it`s not idiot-proof, but it is Accumulator-proof", but that doesn`t mean that everything that works for me will work for everyone else who goes about it carefully :grinno:



And yeah, there`s a, uhm...broad spectrum of how-to here, from quick and simple to nutty perfectionism.



Interesting that a) the Rust Encapsulator didn`t control the rust for you and that b) the epoxy primer solved the problem. Hmm :think: again, lots of variables.. Maybe I do just "that little bit more prep that makes the difference" or maybe you were just unlucky. Or maybe it was a serious case of that "need for occasional touch-ups" thing in an especially bad way. But I oughta rethink the capabilities of that primer, sounds like really good stuff.



For situations where the POR-15/Rust Encapsulator stuff doesn`t work, I use Rust Bullet (at least three coats). I tell ya, *that stuff works*. But it`s a PIA in that you *gotta* do the additional coats (and do `em right) and the silver color might need topcoating if it doesn`t look appropriate (which can be another PIA to do right). And IME it tends to go on really thick (makes me think of "latex house paint", but it`s not really *that* bad). Good for those "gotta fix this!" situations though.



The Black Heavy Duty Anti-Rust *is*, IMO worth a try, but sheesh I`m just such a fan-boy for the stuff that of course I think so. Prep as if you were gonna "paint it properly" and that stuff just might be an easy option for you. If nothing else, it`s really "clean" as undercoatings/rustproofing products go, at least ones it dries. If you do try it, I`d sure like to hear how it works out for you.

Epoxy primer is great. Back in `05 I stripped my father-in-law`s S10 pickup to bare metal (had a crappy maaco paint job on top of failed clear coat) and it had to sit outside like that under a tarp for more than a week. It began to flash rust, so we sanded it down and sprayed epoxy on it, since we were told it will stop the rust from going any further as long as it`s just started to flash. Then did the bodywork on top of the epoxy, sealed it up with another coat of epoxy and then painted it. I was skeptical, was sure it was going to rust through, but 7 years later and no problems at all with rust, peeling, cracking, or anything. I swear by the stuff now.

[Ron Ketcham]

Rich, that`s what it should have done, since you removed the rust scale and with the expoxy, created a real barrier to moisture and air.

Actually, you could now do the same without all that expensive by just applying an acid etching primer to the bare metal.

Big difference between an etch primer or a sealer/primer, than a "surface primer". Surface primers are for "filling" and are so porus they will allow moisture to go through them and create rust under the primer.

Got in a big discussion on this a few years back with a guy that worked for me.

So, took a panel, applied an acid etch to one half and a surface primer to the other and set it outside for 3 months.

The side with the surface primer was showing rust coming up through it while on the etch primer side all was fine.

Grumpy

[Accumulator]

Ah, a cure for the old "porous primer" issues.

[contactparag]

Rich, that`s what it should have done, since you removed the rust scale and with the expoxy, created a real barrier to moisture and air.

Actually, you could now do the same without all that expensive by just applying an acid etching primer to the bare metal.

Big difference between an etch primer or a sealer/primer, than a "surface primer". Surface primers are for "filling" and are so porus they will allow moisture to go through them and create rust under the primer.

Got in a big discussion on this a few years back with a guy that worked for me.

So, took a panel, applied an acid etch to one half and a surface primer to the other and set it outside for 3 months.

The side with the surface primer was showing rust coming up through it while on the etch primer side all was fine.

Grumpy

Thanks ALL for the inputs !





From what I understand,

1) Prepare/clean surface

2) Apply Etching Primer (e.g. Eastwood Self Etch Metal Etching Primer or any other good etching primer)

3) Apply Rust Encapsulator (e.g. Eastwood Rust Encapsulator Paint)



Do I need to apply Rust Converter before 2nd step ?

[Accumulator]

Thanks ALL for the inputs !





From what I understand,

1) Prepare/clean surface

2) Apply Etching Primer (e.g. Eastwood Self Etch Metal Etching Primer or any other good etching primer)

3) Apply Rust Encapsulator (e.g. Eastwood Rust Encapsulator Paint)



Do I need to apply Rust Converter before 2nd step ?

Slightly different if using the Eastwood stuff. Compare this with what`s on their website-

-Yeah, use the Rust Converter before the Rust Encapsulator

-Use the Rust encapsulator *as the primer*; it`s a subsitute for other primers as much as its a "paint"/topcoat

-Consider topcoating the Rust Encapsulator with some kind of durable (and *easy to apply*!) paint.



I did a really, *REALLY* rusty piece on my minivan that I couldn`t properly derust. I used Eastwood`s Rust Converter (two, maybe three applications) and the Rust Encapsulator (IIRC, three coats of that too). I then topcoated with some Rustoleum gloss black paint (just brushed it on like with the Eastwood stuff). Now this was a *real* "painting over the nasty rust" situation that I didn`t expect to last. But when I sold the minivan years later that part was *still* 100% OK.