Orange Peel Removed by Dealer. Now I have MORE Problems

[monicakm]

Background: My Kona Blue 2011 Ford Flex had a bad case of orange peel. The paint thickness gauge measured and average of 8.5 to 9.2ml. Six is what Ford considers normal. The only reason I took it to the dealer to question the finish was due to the amt of scratches and chips that seemed to come out of nowhere. I`ve never had a car with so many scratches and chips and it`s just a year old. I wondered if the paint was substandard, being soft and hence the chips and scratches. When the body shop looked at it, they offered to wet sand and polish it. I was hesitant, did some research and was assured by the dealership that it would look GREAT and they`d work with it till I was happy.



1st trip to the body shop resulted in my BEAUTIFUL, sparkling, dazzling Kona Blue car looking MUCH darker and "flat" No depth, no brilliance. With the aid of a camera`s flash, I could see swirl marks and horizontal streaks. Doing some research of her own, body shop manager discovered on Ford`s fordtechservice.dealerconnection.com website "do not remove more than 0.3ml of paint film or refinishing will be required. They took off about 2ml. The paint gauge now reads about 7ml.



2nd trip to the body shop improved the appearance but it was still darker and just didn`t have that WOW factor it did when I bought it. No one ever mentioned to me that removing the orange peel would cause the the finish to look darker and lose much of it`s sparkle. Body shop manager and I took the car to a paint shop that the dealer uses. They looked at the car and saw dull areas. It was their opinion that the car needed to be sanded and to reshoot the clear coat. My local paint and body man looked at the car. He thought, with the exception of a few dull areas, it looked good. His concern about reshooting the clear coat is the inevitable paint/tape lines. But, if the car has 6-7mls of paint/clearcoat, the finish hasn`t been compromised (UV damage) by removing too much cearcoat has it?



I just want the car to dazzle like it used to and have an even, smooth surface free of dull spots and white splatters. I think a good coat of a synthetic paste wax should be part of the restoration. They`ve skirted around this issue. Would a product such as Opti-Coat be something to consider too?



Here are the steps the body shop took in restoring the surface

http://3mcollision.com/media/documen...oduct-list.pdf

They repeated the last 3 or 4 steps the second time around.



I`m here looking for options. What will give me back the brilliance, dazzle and depth with minimal possibilities of making things worse? Wish I`d never done this. The opinions on whether or not the extra clearcoat made the paint softer is about 50-50.



This was my beautiful car before the wet sanding and polish.

[IMG][/IMG]



Thanks!

Monica

[Ron Ketcham]

Did you purchase the vehicle "new" or was it bought as a "used" vehicle?

Grumpy

[Thomas Dekany]

Subscribed

[C. Charles Hahn]

Subscribed

Likewise... this sounds like a train-wreck in the making.

[monicakm]

I bought the car new. It`s my 2nd Flex. My dad let my 2010 roll 200 yards into a massive oak tree



Would someone care to let me know what the response "subscribed" means?

"Train-wreck in the making"? Six replies/likes and no helpful replies??

[Ron Ketcham]

Take this for what it is worth, from one who worked with Ford as a supplier and vendor to their paint, body and corossion engineers.

That vehicle was either repainted at the factory due to an issue, but doubt it, since you mentioned "chips, etc imperfections" being visable.

You mention that the chips and "scratches" started to show after you had it a while, which would indicate normal paint shrinkage following refinishing work.

How many miles did it have on it when you took delivery?

What and where is the dealeship that you bought it from?

I will attempt to aid you, but it`s a long road since it appears you have had it for more than a year.

Grumpy

[C. Charles Hahn]

I bought the car new. It`s my 2nd Flex. My dad let my 2010 roll 200 yards into a massive oak tree



Would someone care to let me know what the response "subscribed" means?

"Train-wreck in the making"? Six replies/likes and no helpful replies??

Subscribed meaning we`re following the situation and/or waiting for additional information. Ron asked you if the vehicle was new or used when you bought it and you hadn`t responded yet. I said this sounds like a train-wreck in the making because my initial impression is that the dealer/body shop hacked your paint up royally and that yes, by removing that much material they very possibly (if not most probably) did compromise the UV protection of the finish.



Sorry to say but if you came here expecting to be prescribed a miracle cure, that seems highly unlikely in this case. Do you have any close up pictures of the current condition of your vehicle`s paint, preferably in direct sun?

[RaskyR1]

I`ve seen cars OEM paint vary in thickness all over the place, looking through my work I found one Ford, a 2007 Edge and it was reading an average of 8+ mils.









Can you capture a picture of the dull areas?



Without seeing the vehicle I`d guess the dull areas are left over sanding marks or heavy buffing marks/holograms. If the clear has been sanded/rubbed through you will notice a ring around the area. With that much paint removed your UV protection is probably considerably compromised, how long it last is any body`s guess. Assuming it`s not been rubbed though a reputable pro should be able to bring it back to life, and then apply a coating like Opti-Coat for a little added UV protection.





Where are you located?

[Nth Degree]

^^Thanks, Rasky.



I was just wondering about the paint thickness. Seems rather thick for factory, but I haven`t done any Flexes.



I would be documenting EVERYTHING at this point. Dates, whom you spoke with and a brief summary of the conversations. The readings of the paint thickness are going to be the key, I would think. Taking off 2 mils is clearly too much.

[monicakm]

It was suggested to me more than once that the car was probably ran thru the clearcoat tunnel (or whatever) more than once to fix a problem, hence the extra thick clearcoat.

The car had no chips or scratches, that I could see, when I purchased it new. Within a month I started noticing a couple perfectly round chips and scratches. I lightly dust my car with a

California duster at least 3 times a week, often more, and use TWI Detailer on it a couple times a week so I`m very aware of new imperfections. And no, the scratches are not in the same pattern as the duster travels.

Car had 5 miles on it when I drove it off the dealer`s lot.

Bob Tomes Ford in McKinney, Tx. They are not the ones doing the work tho. That dealer is about 70 miles from where I live. Tyler Ford in Tyler, Tx is doing the work. I`ve purchased cars

from them in the past. They were unable to find (or trade) for the car I wanted.

Thanks

Take this for what it is worth, from one who worked with Ford as a supplier and vendor to their paint, body and corossion engineers.

That vehicle was either repainted at the factory due to an issue, but doubt it, since you mentioned "chips, etc imperfections" being visable.

You mention that the chips and "scratches" started to show after you had it a while, which would indicate normal paint shrinkage following refinishing work.

How many miles did it have on it when you took delivery?

What and where is the dealeship that you bought it from?

I will attempt to aid you, but it`s a long road since it appears you have had it for more than a year.

Grumpy

[Ron Ketcham]

Charlie, as you are aware from your work with some folks up there, "there is more to this than just what is posted", and my advice to her is to just answer the questions and do nothing more to the finish until all the data/facts are made known.

Grumpy

[monicakm]

I don`t have any pictures since the 2nd buffing. I will see what I can do.

Here is a photo of the left front fender after the first time in the body shop. Not only were there swirls but horizontal streaks too.

So even tho the paint gauge is reading 7 and more mils, it`s probable that the finish has been compromised (UV protection)?



[IMG][/IMG]

Subscribed meaning we`re following the situation and/or waiting for additional information. Ron asked you if the vehicle was new or used when you bought it and you hadn`t responded yet. I said this sounds like a train-wreck in the making because my initial impression is that the dealer/body shop hacked your paint up royally and that yes, by removing that much material they very possibly (if not most probably) did compromise the UV protection of the finish.



Sorry to say but if you came here expecting to be prescribed a miracle cure, that seems highly unlikely in this case. Do you have any close up pictures of the current condition of your vehicle`s paint, preferably in direct sun?

[RaskyR1]

We have several reputable pro`s in your area that could look at your car and help you determine what the issue is.





Nick

Welcome to Nick`s Custom Detailing!



Josh

Dallas Car Detailing by Ottmann Detailing



Scott

Scott`s Mobile Auto Detailing :: Home

[Ron Ketcham]

Ok, now we can progress.

First, contact Ford Customer Service Division for your region,( this information is in your Owners Manual and DO NOT deal with the "dealer" from then on), but be sure to be ready to provide all the documentation, from day one to the Regional representative.

The paint is covered by a one year or 12,000 mile warranty.

If, on inspection by a Ford Motor Co Field Engineer, it is determined that the issue was created by the assembly plant, it is a canidate for a "buy back" by Ford.

They don`t like to do this, but with documentation, a strong will, it can happen.

If not, you will have to live with this until you sell or trade it, as no polishing, miracle product is going to result in a long term, satisfactory result.

Sorry.

Grumpy

[monicakm]

These body/paint shops are in Dallas. I`m in the Tyler area. I did buy the car in the Dallas area because my dealer couldn`t find what I wanted. Do you have any reputable pros in Tyler?

Thanks