I think ONR is dumb....

[Scottwax]

From Optimum`s website it would appear that they do NOT have alot of confidence that ONR will not damage the surface of a vehicle-am I the only one who has watched that ridiculous video? Now if Optimum had the stones to use a dirty Ferrari (with 200 miles on it) I would have been impressed.



It would appear that the primary purpose of this product is to reduce water consumption, however how much water is used in thoroughly washing whatever was used to `clean` the vehicle AFTER using ONR?



ONR has to scratch vehicles to take any other position would seem to be illogical, unless of course your contention is that this product magically is able to surround imbeded/attached abrasive particles with an impenetrable bubble...



But I ain`t the smartest person in the world, help me out please.

Dirty enough for you?



YouTube - Washing a Cayenne with ONR



I wouldn`t use it on my customer`s cars if I didn`t have the utmost confidence in ONR`s ability to wash without marring or swirling.

[Dan]

ONR has to scratch vehicles to take any other position would seem to be illogical, unless of course your contention is that this product magically is able to surround imbeded/attached abrasive particles with an impenetrable bubble...



But I ain`t the smartest person in the world, help me out please.

Assuming a moderately dirty car, no caked on mud: So how does spraying water magically protect the paint from having the same dirt move across the surface? In either case you end up rubbing dirt against the surface of the car.

[dervdave]

So how does spraying water magically protect the paint from having the same dirt move across the surface? In either case you end up rubbing dirt against the surface of the car.

Surfactants encapsulate and emulsify the dirt and grit safely removing it away from the surface.

[imported_Bence]

As you prespray/presoak the panel with a strong ONR solution, the actives start he particle encapsulation sooner, and the dirt will be softer. In these cases I`m using a thick mitt, lift as much water as possible, and start to wash the panel with VERY little pressure. This pass won`t remove all of the soiling, so you have to wash the panel until it`s clean! This sentence is the most important thing imaginable. Lots of people have the false conception of washing/drying, because they think that you have to wash the area just once, then you can start drying it immediately. BS! You have to wash the panel until it becomes clean! Use a white drying towel to check your work. If there are soiling on the towel, you did something wrong. The drying towels must be absolutely pristine.



You`ll see that after one washing pass some dirt rolls inside the droplets. Wash again. The polymers start to work and the beading will become more pronounced as the panel is getting cleaner (usually 2 pass is enough). This level of soiling is the norm here:

[imported_Bence]

Surfactants encapsulate and emulsify the dirt and grit safely removing it away from the surface.

ONR has no soapy surfactants - they need to be rinsed off.

[Accumulator]

.. In either case you end up rubbing dirt against the surface of the car.

Avoiding that "rubbing dirt against the paint under pressure" is what it`s all about, and it`s easier said than done. Whether you do it via ONR`s lifting and encasulation (or whatever goes on with it...SuperBee364 simply calls it "the ONR voodoo") or via my dislodge-and-flush technique, as long as the vehicle looks OK without the need to polish all the time then that`s what counts. And "looks OK" and "all the time" will mean different things to different people.



One thing I *will* say about a potential shortcoming of ONR is that I, doing *my* vehicles, need to spray soapy water under pressure to flush dirt out from under/behind the trim/etc. (areas inaccessible to wash media, where dirt builds up). There`s simply no way to do it with ONR or any other wash media-contact-centric technique, at least no way that I`ve ever thought of; I have to use the foamgun (with my boosted water pressure) and/or my air compressor-powered siphon feed sprayer..

Assuming a moderately dirty car, no caked on mud: So how does spraying water magically protect the paint from having the same dirt move across the surface?

If you flush the dirt off before touching it with the wash medium then the dirt isn`t there to cause marring. And if you can even just loosen the bond between the dirt and the paint, then it`s a lot easier to get the dirt off without applying pressure. Don`t discount the solvent-effect of even plain water...though soapy water works even better. Once the dirt is detached from the paint, it can float in suspension in the water/shampoo, up away from the paint. Still gotta be careful not to apply enough pressure to put it back in contact with the paint though.

[AeroCleanse]

Yeah, we must just be running into different types of cars. Very rarely can I use ONR solely without a hose. Most of my cars have mud caked under the fender wells, and just general grime that I dont think one should be dragging around with a ONR sponge.

Since I switched to ONR, I`ve never needed a hose. If your dragging around dirt with your ONR sponge, your doing it wrong or are using the wrong kind of sponge.



I think Scottwax has a video on cleaning wheels, and fender wells with ONR.

[Accumulator]

.. Lots of people have the false conception of washing/drying, because they think that you have to wash the area just once, then you can start drying it immediately. BS! You have to wash the panel until it becomes clean!

Very good point :xyxthumbs



In my case I`m currently washing each area a minumum of three times: with the siphon-feed sprayer, with the BHB/foamgun, and then with the mitt/foamgun. That`s *after* a good resoaking/prerinse. And even after those three steps then it often takes more work.



For those who like to think about this stuff- Contrast my approach with the opposing view: that each time you touch the paint you risk marring it, so you should minimize the touching and not do so many wash passes.

[Dan]

I think a big problem with some of the theories posts is that spraying water and/or foaming removes all the dirt. If it did, there would be no reason to use wash media and this discussion should be over. I have yet to see pictures of ONR induced marring.

[ThomasC]

Well all I can say is that if the people who make the stuff don`t trust it, I won`t trust it;

wdp`s only -(water dependent products, yuk, yuk, sort of like that)



If you have not seen the video on the Optimum website you really should take the time to look at it.

[mikenap]

Well all I can say is that if the people who make the stuff don`t trust it, I won`t trust it;

wdp`s only -(water dependent products, yuk, yuk, sort of like that)



If you have not seen the video on the Optimum website you really should take the time to look at it.

Really? No one`s holding a gun to your head, I guess.



All I can say is I`ve used it, love it and COMPLETELY trust it not to scratch my cars. Apparently a TON of pros trust it on their customer`s cars too, along with the multitude of people who chimed in so far. At the price, it really won`t put you out too much to just try it. If you don`t like it, no biggie. But it really does no good to fly in the face of what actual users of the product are trying to share with you. Sounds like you had your mind made up before you even started this thread.

[Accumulator]

I think a big problem with some of the theories posts is that spraying water and/or foaming removes all the dirt...

IME you always need some degree of mechanical agitation, but I haven`t tried a pressure washer-centric method like what SuperBee364 uses either.

.. I have yet to see pictures of ONR induced marring.

Well, I don`t put much stock in internet pics one way or the other.



I`ve marred paint using ONR in situations where my normal technique would *NOT* have caused marring. Yeah, I "did it right" and I`m 100% confident that nothing escaped my consideration. No, the marring wasn`t anything that most people would notice or care about. Yeah, I do use ONR for some things, so don`t take my $0.02 as some kind of unqualified slam or anything like that.



There`s no right/wrong position on this topic and IMO no percentage in trying to change anybody`s opinion about it. [Repeat "use what works for you.." lecture]

[imported_Bence]

Well all I can say is that if the people who make the stuff don`t trust it, I won`t trust it...

What makes you think such ... (insert appropriate word here)?



We all seen the video. Anthony Orosco is an active member here who did this little film, and while you won`t see him getting an Oscar for that, it shows the simplicity of the process quite well. Couple of members even helped Optimum with professional assessments to develop the product(s).



Yes, you can have your doubts. Lots of other members did. But you won`t gain anything if you just play a broken record player. Try it and you can decide based on your own experience if the technology was worthy of mentioning/using.

[GlossyTundra]

Since I switched to ONR, I`ve never needed a hose. If your dragging around dirt with your ONR sponge, your doing it wrong or are using the wrong kind of sponge.



I think Scottwax has a video on cleaning wheels, and fender wells with ONR.

Come to Raleigh, NC and do some of the trucks that I do, and you will quickly put your ONR away in favor of a hose.

[AeroCleanse]

Come to Raleigh, NC and do some of the trucks that I do, and you will quickly put your ONR away in favor of a hose.

I doubt I`d use a hose, it be more likely to break out a steamer.