Turtle Wax: New member

[XRL]

Hey all, Trust me. I do work for TW and have for more than 13 years. Thanks again for commenting.



I have a few questions. What is the optimal outcome / result you are looking for? ie, is it primarily shine? depth? durability? What outcome is most important to u? Does time play a role in limiting ur process?



Thanks

See, this is where the things get broken into segments, even among the enthusiast group. Some guys want absurd shine only, and they use mainly sealants and tend to be Zenophobes(and before you say I misspelled xenophobes, I know, think about why I might have done that for the embedded truth!). Some guys want the depth, warmth, clarity, and wetness and stick with your typical carnaubas, albeit pricey high end ones. A lot of us just like everything, good shine, good depth, good warmth, with good presentation (the packaging having a place for a foam applicator inside the can is a big + for me, the smell of the product, how easy it is to use, it not being a goopy puddy mess when you open it... things like that).



Overall, I would say that time is not typically as large of a factor, and while we would *like* durability, if we really only wanted that we`d all be using that big ugly orange bottle and Collinites. Most of us don`t really need more than a month out of a summer product, while a winter product should be able to last the whole winter if possible. Personally, I have no winter products, because I live where we have no winter.



With so many established products out there on the market, breaking into the detailing market is a tough thing to do. We are fortunate enough to have tons of readily available OTC products that work great. So for an enthusiast line of TW products, to really take any market share, I think you`d have to undercut the competition by a decent amount, while delivering a product equally as good if not better in all aspects.



Exposure is also critical here, most of us here are skeptics of any new product that comes out (ie: TW Black Box). We typically buy off of reviews by other people. If you guys were to come out with a new line, I would suggest giving a ton of stuff away to get the name and products out there (Mothers gave away a pretty nice setup with basically their entire FX line and one of their very nice Foose Edition bags along with some MF towels, definitely got the name out there more)

[RickyMartinZ28]

I would have to agree with TW needing some more professional products.



Clay, Polish, etc...



I`ll have to pay more attention to the TurtleWax options...I always just look past them.



The F21, leaves a horrible greasy mess. I`m still working on my technique with that product.

[TWax]

Awesome input all. Thanks!



I have worked with Megs, Zaino, Collinite and others personally. Our R&D dept tests most of what`s out there.



Based on both the positive and constructive feedback I`ve received, understanding that many here would be open to testing some new products, I`ll get on the sampling idea. All I ask is to please give TW a fair chance, which I believe you will. If it is a professional product, then I`d hope it would be judged compared to other pro products. If OTC, then compared to comeptitve OTC. I would hope that reviews can be based on true performance, not on brand bias.



Thanks all. Appreciate all your interest and comments.

[Scottwax]

Hey all, Trust me. I do work for TW and have for more than 13 years. Thanks again for commenting.



I have a few questions. What is the optimal outcome / result you are looking for? ie, is it primarily shine? depth? durability? What outcome is most important to u? Does time play a role in limiting ur process?



Thanks

1. Polishes/compounds with the ability to remove defects without leaving severe marring or holograms that take several steps to remove-which also addresses your time factor question.



2. Depth and wetness are what I look for in a wax or sealant. Easy on and off with the ability to work well in full sun situations.



3. Interior dressings with a satin sheen (greasy interior dressings look horrible).



4. Tire dressings that do not sling.

[5spdfrk]

1. Polishes/compounds with the ability to remove defects without leaving severe marring or holograms that take several steps to remove-which also addresses your time factor question.



2. Depth and wetness are what I look for in a wax or sealant. Easy on and off with the ability to work well in full sun situations.



3. Interior dressings with a satin sheen (greasy interior dressings look horrible).



4. Tire dressings that do not sling.

That`s pretty much it right there! +1

[JeffM]

I havnt really used TW stuff, but off the top of my head, the stuff people like- dont like here, that would prevent us from purchasing a product:



Stuff that stains trim, too annoying to mess with

Stuff that attracts dust

Bad smells

Hard to remove

Shine is gone if it rains

Paint isnt slick enough/ soap isnt slick enough

Soaps with "wax" in it is pretty much useless for us

Hard to spread/ remove

Water doesnt have small tight uniform beading

Dressing slinging off tires

Wheel cleaners that are too weak/ too strong/ browns tires

Cleaner waxes are almost always seen here as stuff for people who dont care much about their paint

Interiors are either meant to be new looking with no gloss, or have a slight sheen that feels rich and luxurious. If an interior product for one second feels greasy, its in the trash.

Dont BS people. If your product says it...for example...cleans glass, just clean the glass without streaking, without doing it 5 times. Just work as advertised.



Sometimes i use something and i am like ***, didnt anyone who makes this crap even bother to use it before they sold it??



We might fall for good marketing now and then, but in an hour after someone gets something home the whole internet knows if its junkola or not.



I think once you develop a product that meets these things, then its just a matter of refinement to inch closer to stuff like Zaino, Optimum, Ultima.

[Bunky]

I think once you develop a product that meets these things, then its just a matter of refinement to inch closer to stuff like Zaino, Optimum, Ultima.

There are many brands like Collinite, Duragloss, etc. that affordable, respected and are not premium priced. It depends on the corporate goals.



Most serious detailers will always pay more for a product that works than a low price for something that does not. They are not usually looking to spend the least amount because they will likely only use it once.

[XRL]

Another thing I`ll add...



At Detailfest, Meguiar`s showed up with Mike Phillips and a huge Semi. Mothers showed up with Forrest, who knew his stuff for sure as well. The head of Flex North America was there. Point being, there were a lot of big name and important guys there. Turtle Wax needs to have some kind of a presence like this as well if they want to move into the enthusiast market.



To take that a step farther, having some show cars using all Turtle Wax products could be a big help too.

[JeffM]

There are many brands like Collinite, Duragloss, etc. that affordable, respected and are not premium priced. It depends on the corporate goals.



Most serious detailers will always pay more for a product that works than a low price for something that does not. They are not usually looking to spend the least amount because they will likely only use it once.

Your right. I would pay $40 for Z8, a bottle lasts me maybe 1- 1 1/2 years. After using Ultimate Compound, i would pay more for it in a heartbeat also.

[MarcHarris]

If your company is looking for the maximum amount of profits, and sales that you enjoy in the large box retailers (selling to the masses) you`re likely to be disappointed targeting a line toward us and many like us.

Well said Nosbusa.



I`d like to add in this: truthful marketing. When you decide to make high end products for us pro`s - keep this in mind. If you made the product to work a certain way just say so. If you come out with some crazy wax with a high carnauba content - it`s going to likely sweat after application in hot climates. No big deal when you admit that this is what can happen with a high nuba % wax.



Pro`s in many ways aren`t looking for a one product that does it all. We know it doesn`t exist. We want what works. "Liquid clay" is likely a very good idea to market to most OTC people that simply want something easy. Pro`s on the other hand need clay that works with it`s intended purpose to the max. If TW comes out with a wax meant to be hyper durable - then it better be. If it`s not as glossy / easy to apply as others: no big deal as long as it`s durable just as expected.

[jDizzle]

"I have a few questions. What is the optimal outcome / result you are looking for? ie, is it primarily shine? depth? durability? What outcome is most important to u? Does time play a role in limiting ur process?"

to answer your question^^^^

i think you are mainly concerned with the general public.. and making a product they would like.. i think that to the average joe, ease of use, and durability play the biggest role.. im not too sure about reflectivity vs warmth and depth for the average person. but keep in mind,a shiny surface shows swirl and scratches much more easily.. do there has to be a balance , because most people are not going to have a perfect finnish... i still tihnk the ice polish should be called a wax.. full of fillers, very reflective/shiny, and durable... that would be ideal for the typical customer.. easy to use. covers defects (to a degree) and makes it shine and bead for a long time... you could probably market it as a sealant... because you dont have anything marketed as a sealant, so it would be something new from you for them.. dont just call it ice polish again, or nobody will notive it. if you call a sealant and let them know just how long it lasts, people will try it, and will keep using it if it really does what it says.. sorry that post is so wordy and long.



to make this post even more rediculously long..i tried your ice wash today, which i recieved as a sample at a carshow from a napa tent thing.. it was sitting on my shelf until i saw this thread. and it is really good stuff... great lubricity, smells awesome, rinses clean, good cleaning power, easy on skin .. etc etc.. i plan to buy a gallon jug when i run out of my wash... that wont be for a while though :-\. i already have wayy too much car wash because i like to try new things.. im always looking for something better.

most people here like to try new things, i really enjoy it, and have a huge collection of detailing supplies because of my curiosity.. im sure if you sent out samples to the people of autopia they would try them for you.. most would give honest feedback too. its really cool that you`re here trying to talk to use and figure out what everyone wants, instead of trying to tell us your products are what we want. thumbs up for turtle wax :-)

[Big Leegr]

I think that handing out samples might cross the line from "casual observer" to the "requires a paid sponsorship" here. Maybe check with DavidB before going forward with that.

Along that line, I think TW becoming a paid sponsor on here might give it some "better" input. It would allow it to have more of a presence among "enthusiasts" and would allow a more direct communication between parties.

[JeffM]

As much as i would like to think TW wants to improve its image and products, i have serious doubts partly because he actually defended the TW compound. There is no scenario on earth that would make anyone say, "i have to go get some TW compound for this". The stuff is horrible and causes more damage than it fixes.

[wfedwar]

If TW wants to attract detailer`s attention, they should develop a detailer`s line similar to Meg`s detailer series (generally gallon quantities sold as concentrates).



If TW wants to attract enthusiat`s attention, they should develop a high end line and not call it Turtle Wax.



To many people, "Turtle Wax" is synonymous with "generic retail store crap". No offense.

[POPPAJ]

I`m afraid of turtles. Met a vicious snapper once, but that was before I was married!