Mazda 3 Paint correction, need help quick please!

[aznives3]

So i`ve done my 2 hondas (06 civic and 04 s2000), full paint corrections using megs 83/80 combo and both came out looking great, awesome level of correction for my perfectionist attitude. However, both my cars were in fairly good shape so those were a nice break into detailing.



now though, i`ve got my gf`s 05 mazda 3. Its "winning blue", and its absolutely hammered. Swirls everywhere you look, rids everywhere etc etc.



Here`s what i`ve got in my arsenal



Flex 3401 DA

Megs 83

Megs 80

Megs UC

Optimum Compound 2

Optimum Polish 2

Sonus SFX pads (yellow/white/blue) so light cut to finishing



Anyways, i read in a couple places that the mazda clear would be fairly soft. So i decide to hit the car with a white polishing pad + megs 80, to see if it would even do anything. Nada.



Next i tried megs 83 on a yellow light cut pad. A little better, but not even close.



So then i go to try a yellow light cut pad + Megs UC, and also OC2. Well it does take out a majority of the swirls, but RIDS are still clearly there, as well as some basic swirling (unless its micro marring? never had to deal with it before so i wouldn`t know, still looks like the tiniest edges of swirls).



So anyways, i worked on the hood a bit more today, and finally got one section to polish out to an acceptable level, however this took about 3 passes of yellow+OC2, and then a pass of megs UC+yellow using the water spritz KBM. Having a little more faith in the UC KBM, i tried to do an untouched portion of the hood and hit it first with this. It took out about 25% of the swirls, but was still no where near being finished. It felt like i would need maybe 3 or even 4 passes of this method per section to get the correction im after.



So, where do i go from here? Is 4 passes for every small section plausible? This would take me forever to do!



heres the questions that are stuck on my mind the most:



1) is mazda 3 clear actually very hard?

2) Do i need stronger pads? LC yellow heavy cut or perhaps even PFW?

3) Do i need to get 105/205?

4) Is doing 4 passes in one area the only way?



If anyone can chime in please do so, i was really happy how my 2 first details turned out, but now my confidence is taking a bit of a hit on the mazda, could really use your guys` help!

[Scottwax]

Pictures would help.



May need to step up to Meguiars #105 and their burgandy cutting pad.

[aznives3]

i do have some pics but i`ve got no cable, my friend has it, maybe ill go and pick it up tonight. I can tell you though, this is pretty bad stuff, massive swirls everywhere etc, i`m getting decent correction, just not at a decent enough pace. I could be at this forever at this rate. Just boggles my mind taht i`ve read others say that the paint is soft etc.

[GoudyL]

Don`t forget that some scratches are so deep that it`s not profitable to chase them away. E.g if a scratch goes 80% of the way through the clearcoat, you`d be stupid (IMHO) to try an polish it out.



Also agressive compounds/pads can leave hazing, which they are too coarse to remove themselves. Try doing a pass with finishing polish/machine glaze and see what happens.

[aznives3]

yeah i realized at a certain point that there are going to have to be some scratches that i`m just going to need to leave. However, after doing 1 or even 2 passes of either OC2 or UC, im still seeing some moderate swirling, not just RIDS.



So now my question turns to, what exactly is a feasible amount of passes to go over an area with compound before going to a finishing polish?



would it be beneficial to try out a heavy cut pad? what about PFW? can PFW be used on a DA?

[aznives3]

heres what im working against







after OC2, 2-3 passes, looks better in pics than it did in person







here is what UC did after a few passes











notice the minor swirls still in the paint after a few UC KBM`s



before anything







after 3 passes OC, with 1 pass UC KBM and still some defects left







before anything







1 pass UC KBM







2 passes UC KBM







okay, thats what i`m working against right now. I know i varied alot of my processes on the hood, so if you guys want, let me know what combo of stuff to put together with what i have, and i can do 50/50`s on the door to see if anything you guys can reccomend will be working.



All help is GREATLY appreciated!

[Accumulator]

..i`ve got my gf`s 05 mazda 3. Its "winning blue", and its absolutely hammered. Swirls everywhere you look, rids everywhere etc etc.

I`ve never worked on a Mazda3 (my MPV was made in Japan and I bet the paint is different)...but anyhow...



The marring does *NOT* look like micromarring/etc. from your use of compounds. Too straight-line. That`s assuming (uh-oh...) that you`re not marring the paint when you buff off the compound residue. I trust you`re not using too much product or working it insufficiently.



Sometimes you simply *do* have to go over an area many times, even with fairly aggressive combos. The repainted Jag I just did took *MANY* passes with M105/aggressive pads before I could even step down to M105/orange. And I was really leaning on the machines (Flex and PC) too.



Yeah, you can use wool via Flex 3401. PFW is safer than other wool pads and about as aggressive as I`d go in that direction.



PFW pads wear fairly fast, so get more than one if you go that route.

So now my question turns to, what exactly is a feasible amount of passes to go over an area with compound before going to a finishing polish?

You use the aggressive stuff until the original marring is as corrected as you want to get it. Don`t switch to the milder stuff until it`s almost perfect. Good compounds like M105 leave things very nice.



IMO you have many more passes to go...That marring doesn`t appear to be all that deep. So you`re not taking off that much clear. Sometimes it`s very slow going (insert lecture from rotary-Meisters here about wasting time with DAs ).



This is *JUST A WILD GUESS* but I *think* most of what your pics show can be safely removed. But without ETG readings you just don`t know.



A few of those RIDS do look too deep for safe removal.

May need to step up to Meguiars #105 and their burgandy cutting pad.

That`s a great suggestion! Sometimes that Meg`s 7006 burgundy cutting pad is *just* the ticket and it works great with M105 via Flex. It can be funny how well that pad works in some cases, just like magic compared to other combos.



I`d run out to the local autobody/paint supply place and get some M105/M205 and some 7006 pads.

[aznives3]

well...crap.



today i moved onto the door, just to get myself a nice freshly swirled panel. I decided to just try one thing, to see exactly what was going on.



tried megs UC + yellow sonus pad (supposedly a LC orange equivalent)



did not spritz with water, just worked it in like a normal polish. Spread it at speed 3 on the flex DA, worked it for 4 cross hatches at speed 5



Here is what the paint looked like fresh











Here is it after 1 pass, still swirled!







After pass #2....see for yourself!





After pass #3...still got lots of defects that SEEM like they should be coming out









And this is what i took it to, all the way up to pass #4, and after this i kinda quit for the day to set up for a garage sale tomororw, and also because i was getting frustrated with getting minimal results for quite a bit of polishing











So once again im in a pickle, i think this just kinda shows me that i may need to step up my product/pad/machine even? I am hoping and putting faith in my flex DA that its still capable of helping me out here.



Here`s what i`ve got in mind right now for options



1) buy 105/205, PFW and some LC yellow pads

2) Stick with megs UC/OC2, and pick up some megs W7000 burgandy pads locally

3) get a rotary, 105/205/pfw and all the works! haha



right now i`m leaning towards option 2, since i found a few places that carry the megs W7000 cutting pads locally, but nobody around here carries 105. I did end up reading though on MOL that the burgandy pad may not be able to used with a DA? can anyone confirm this? Does anyone think that that pad isn`t going to be strong enough still and that i definately need some 105 + PFW?



Thanks again, hopefully i can hammer this car out, really want this one to end well!

[GoudyL]

Seriously, though, you`ve already done alot of polishing to this paint. After having attacked the paint multiple times with cutting polishes, I`d try at least one round with #80 speed glaze on a polishing pad, before starting up with any more heavy compounding.

[aznives3]

Seriously, though, you`ve already done alot of polishing to this paint. After having attacked the paint multiple times with cutting polishes, I`d try at least one round with #80 speed glaze on a polishing pad, before starting up with any more heavy compounding.

i can give this a go, but i`m not really sure that this would be taking out the remaining defects....what should i be looking for after this step?

[Gen2]

Mazda paint is definately harder than Honda paint, so I doubt you will get the same result as you were working on Honda paint. I have done quite a number of Mazda 3 before and based on your feedback and photos, I will suggest



1) get a rotary (if you think you are ready), pfw pad and M105, this combo will knock out at least 95% of those defects shown in the photos. Sometime you might need 2-3 rounds for the deeper scratches.



2) use the Flex 3401 DA, white polishing pad and M80 for finishing.



These method usually works for me

[Accumulator]

I don`t think that buying (and learning to use) a rotary is the answer for this one. Just as I don`t think he oughta, say...wetsand with 4K and then just bring back the gloss (which would also get him there a lot faster). I`ve done more serious correction than that on harder paint with the Flex and IMO he should just put in the time it takes and learn how to use the Flex aggressively.



Also, those aren`t *deep* defects so he`s not taking off that much clear no matter how many times he`s going over the area. If he were taking off a lot of clear the defects would be gone. But yeah...Mazdas have thin paint so you don`t want to overdo the correction. Still...he can do better than that, I sure have on my Mazda and its clearcoat is perfectly healthy. He`s just expecting much faster results than his sorta-gentle approach is gonna yield.



aznives3- Short version regarding the 7006- it works fine on the Flex with M105 and I`d expect it to work OK with UC. Might leave a bit of micromarring.



I`ve never used UC but I don`t do the "spread at 3, ramp up slowly.." approach. I prime the pad, add maybe two-four tiny drops (smaller than a pea), put the pad against the panel, and start polishing at speed 5. I apply a fair amount of pressure if it`s needed too, just not enough to cause backingplate/housing friction issues. My guess is that you`re being too gentle about the whole thing, but don`t go overboard and have an "oops!" either.



I did a lot more than four passes on the Jag I corrected with the Flex/M105. A *LOT* more. And I was being aggressive about it. You`re just expecting more timely correcton that your combo is gonna provide. Resign youself to it taking as long as it takes. If that`s four hours per panel so be it. Shoulda had M105, or maybe PowerGloss, on the shelf before you started. Live and learn.



Don`t let frustration get to you or you`ll make mistakes. Some of those pics make me think that you`re maybe using too much product and/or not cleaning your pad often enough. They just say "frustrated, getting sloppy" to me and guess how I know- `cause I`ve BTDT



He`s a thought from the other side of the fence: why isn`t the "after pass #4" result good enough? Yeah, I do think you can get it a lot better. BUT...this is a car that`s gonna get marred again, right? Your gf`s daily driver. Is it gonna *stay* perfect for at least two years? It might not have enough clear left for more than one or two more corrections like this. The point being, what`s the point?



Yeah...*I* would get it very close to perfect, and I`d keep it that way. But that`s me. I`m starting to think you`re suffering from "Autopian Mindset Syndrome" where nothing but 100% perfection is good enough (and you`re expecting to get there as fast as people who`ve done this hundreds or thousands of times). The only times that`s justified in a non-professional situation IMO are a) showcars prior to competition, b) cars owned by people who simply don`t mar them when they use and/or wash them, ie., cars that will *stay* perfect for a long time, and finally c) cars being prepped for sale. Maybe this car doesn`t fit into any of those three categories. Just food for thought....

[aznives3]

Haha, thanks for the reply accumulator, made me chuckle at the end. Theres no hiding it, but I have OCD for wanting a flawless car paint finish. When I first started the detail on this 3, I knew for sure there was probably no way of getting it corrected to a level I wanted it safely, but since it’s the first time I’ve had to deal with that, it’s a little harder for me to accept right away. I have come to terms with it and im going to leave deep RIDS alone, but for the most part you hit the nail right on the head. I believe I’ve hit the limitations of the pad/polish combo for now, and need to invest in some 105. Some guys over at MOL have suggested the same, 105, orange pads, PFW (maybe) and go to town with that. A mod over there also stated that 105 is basically twice the cut of UC, so he said I should get quicker results with that, which is exactly what I’m looking for. I can live without being 100% corrected, but I was just hoping there was a quicker way to get to that 90% mark, and that answer may be 105. I still have trust in my flex DA, so I’ll move up aggressiveness on the pad/polish combo first before switching the machine.



Now I can relax a little bit more haha

[Accumulator]

Haha, thanks for the reply accumulator, made me chuckle at the end. ..

Glad to hear that...I don`t want this stuff to drive you nuts

Some guys over at MOL have suggested the same, 105, orange pads, PFW (maybe) and go to town with that. A mod over there also stated that 105 is basically twice the cut of UC, so he said I should get quicker results with that, which is exactly what I’m looking for.

M105 *is* very versatile; you can get different results with different pads. That`s interesting about it being *that* much stronger than UC and it explains a lot IMO.

Now I can relax a little bit more haha

There you go :xyxthumbs

[aznives3]

ill order the 105/205 today and some more pads, and hopefully will report back with good news in about a weeks time!