Black F-150 - What did I do wrong?

**motobuild** · 05-14-2008, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

I don`t think there is any hazing or marring from the SSR1, it hardly has any cut anyway--I think any swirls in the pictures are simply pre-existing and unremoved, from not working the polish enough or the polish not having enough cut. As for the rest of the stuff, I simply see unremoved AIO and #16.

I agree with you, but on a soft-enough clear even SS1 can leave some marring. I would, from the get go, assume that it is unremoved product though...I think the CC would have to be pretty butter-soft to get marred up by SS1 and a white-pad.

**scary bill** · 05-14-2008, 09:56 PM

I have a 2004 f 150. Sonic blue (dark) and using a pc always leaves a haze that *I* can see. Maybe I am crazy here, but a white pad will not IMHO finish down compleatly haze free on dark ford paint. I even get haze if I use a lc white w/ AIO.

I would repolish w/ a white pad first. I you still have the haze try a blac/blue pad. I get best results using less polish than I think I should.

After never being 100% satisfied with the finish I got I purchased a rotary. On *my* paint it works much better.

I have gotten better rusults on other vehicles with a PC before, though. I think they were harder paint. I use the PC to apply non abrasive suff. I did try 3m UF with aLC blue by PC on an area I didn`t want to do with the rotary, I`ll see how that looks next time its in the sun.

**evolutionwc3** · 05-15-2008, 06:49 AM

To echo what Bill said- a few weeks back I did an `07 F-150 (in the C&B section) and relied primarily on 106FF/LC White via rotary and the truck was very pleasant to deal with....absolutely no surprises and it finished down perfectly. I think with a little more working time, you`d get great results.

**cruster** · 05-15-2008, 11:40 AM

WASH THE TRUCK! I had the same thing happen to me a few weeks ago with my `04 Miata, silver, trying to get it ready for spring. First time using AIO, on a PC with a white pad, and when I was done with the hood I saw all kinds of what looked like swirling. The car has always been well cared for and the paint is essentially flawless, so I was really disappointed...and a bit surprised given that that combination should be really mild. I mixed up a bucket of Gold Class with a couple drops of Dawn and rewashed the hood on a hunch...problem solved, the swirling was gone. What I`d seen had been swirling not in my paint but in the massive amounts of product left on my car. I took another stab at it with less product and more time, and got the results I had expected in the first place.

**Accumulator** · 05-15-2008, 12:46 PM

I dunno folks...every time I see a newbie (no offense intended, BigFly10) being advised to switch from a PC to a rotary I shudder and think that a) that`s not likely to make things overall *easier* for him, b) he`s not likely to go buy (and learn) a whole new polishing system anyhow, and c) there just aren`t all that many cases where you can`t get an acceptable finish without using a rotary. When somebody just wants to get their vehicle looking OK, I genuinely believe they can almost always do it without using a rotary. Just my $0.02...hope it didn`t sound too :argue

BigFly10- Glad you found my response helpful, though IMO it wasn`t as specific as I woulda liked as I just don`t know about SSR1 or Ford clear.

But yeah, that was way too much product (I only use a few ounces at most to do a Suburban) and way too little time (it`d scare your pants off if I told you how long this can take via PC

but it`s a *LOT* longer than the 3 minutes).

Try using just enough product to lubricate the pad and work it until it`s almost gone. Generally, you don`t want to go until it`s dry (dry polish can leave marring) but you *do* want to work it a good long time.

While I try to stay away from this kind of advice in cases like this, I can`t help but think that if you were using 1Z brand polishes you could get things dialed in *very* quickly with far less frustration. If I were there advising you, we`d do the truck with 1Z Paint Polish. If that didn`t leave a good enough finish (i.e., if we got hazing) I`d go over it again with 1Z Metallic Polish with Wax. Or *maybe* just do the truck once with the Metallic :think: Then, no AIO, just wax. I`d utterly confident that things would turn out super with a minumum of frustration. Just something to consider if you decide to try a different approach.

**SuperBee364** · 05-15-2008, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by abbeysdad

If you do some research I think you`d find that there is a grunge layer (anyone that`s ever removed a front bra can confirm) of contamination, minor oxidants and just plain grime that just doesn`t come off with a wash and detail clay (even if you use the dreaded dawn wash).

Polishing gets rid of this grunge layer, leaving a squeaky clean surface - not all polishing is done to remove swirls and scratches.

Doh, sorry if I misunderstood... I thought he was posting pictures of the swirls because he wanted help in getting rid of them.

**scary bill** · 05-15-2008, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

I dunno folks...every time I see a newbie (no offense intended, BigFly10) being advised to switch from a PC to a rotary I shudder and think that a) that`s not likely to make things overall *easier* for him, b) he`s not likely to go buy (and learn) a whole new polishing system anyhow, and c) there just aren`t all that many cases where you can`t get an acceptable finish without using a rotary. When somebody just wants to get their vehicle looking OK, I genuinely believe they can almost always do it without using a rotary. Just my $0.02...hope it didn`t sound too :argue

Well, I didn`t really mean for him to get a rotary. :waxing:

It is just what I have come across. I do think that Ford clear is soft enought to be picky, oddly I have not gotten as bad of a haze on our 2006 Honda CR-V. Maybe it was easier for me jump back into rotary polishing because of some previous experiance, and I find a PC very unenjoyable to use. That somtimes drives what I post.

I have done some thinking about the OP`s haze issue( as with my own) in using his PC. If repolishing with SSR1 and the PC works then ignore my ramblings.

**start ramblings**:dig

There must be a polish that will work well with PC on picky paint. I have tried OP/OC/OHC with the PC and got great results on some cars.

Megs #80/#82/#9 all seem fine, on all but the F-150 Lightning :nixweiss

only #9 with a finishing pad will not leave behind micomarring on the Lightning, it also has no real correction

I did try 3m UF by PC w/ blue pad, I have not had the Lightning in the sun yet but I didn`t see any micromarring with the hologen so far. I also used the rotary on the top of the door to see how well that works.

Maybe the 1z polish or 106ff would work, I don`t have any to try.

**99MustangGTVert** · 05-16-2008, 12:46 AM

Im no expert by any stretch, but it does look from the pictures provided that what Im seeing is a lot of left over rpoduct, not marring. Look at the second pic in from the left. The middle of the door there is a upside down hand print! LOL.

**Accumulator** · 05-16-2008, 09:15 AM

scary Bill- Thanks for not taking my post the wrong way. I sometimes get a bit exasperated when really serious detailers suggest "expert-level" approaches to newbies, who I feel are likely to just say "oh, forget it...", and I didn`t mean to take out my frustration on you or anyone else in particular.

Yeah, we all have our favorite machines; mine is the Cyclo, I simply like it better than either of my rotaries :nixweiss I agree about the PC, I don`t like using that vibration-machine much either but I put up with it for small spot-repairs.

And yeah, sometimes even the white LC pad is just a bit too aggressive. Much as I generally prefer polishing pads to finishing ones, sometimes only the softest pad is gonna work.

When I`ve had *super* soft paint (it was a repaint that took forever to cure/harden) that even #80 hazed up, I used Griot`s Machine Polish #3 and it worked OK. Worked a lot better by Cyclo than by PC though, and by PC it worked best with 4" pads (which is generally true IME).

Hmm..I wonder if the pad size might make a difference :think: I`ve just hardly *ever* got those pigtail marring marks from a PC and maybe it`s because I almost always use 4" pads with mine.

I think the 1Z High Gloss would work OK for this, but I don`t work on super-soft paint hardly at all so I don`t really know. I`d be astounded if the 1Z Metallic Polish didn`t work, and some people have found it has enough cut for mild correction on soft paint. And it`d probably fill the mildest marring anyhow. Ditto for products like Autoglym SRP.

Back in the day, there were some black lacquers that were *SOFT*, and we were able to get `em OK by hand, with some pretty crude products- "hand rubbed lacquer" and all that.

**SuperBee364** · 05-16-2008, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Back in the day, there were some black lacquers that were *SOFT*, and we were able to get `em OK by hand, with some pretty crude products- "hand rubbed lacquer" and all that.

My neighbor had a Maserati Quatroporte back in the early 80`s, and I remember him telling me it had "hand rubbed lacquer". It was one of the most beautiful paint jobs I`ve ever seen on a car.

**BigFly10** · 05-16-2008, 04:04 PM

Okay, well I went out last night and tackled my driver`s side panel with SSR1 and the white pad again, this time using significantly less product and working it in longer. The other thing I figured out after doing a little more reading is that I was putting too much pressure on the PC so that I was stopping it from spinning. Not sure how significant this is, but it certainly couldn`t have helped.

I addressed these issues and tried again, this time with my halogen light close by for inspection and the results appear to be MUCH better. I haven`t gotten it in the sunlight yet as the ultimate test, but I am pretty sure that the obvious hazing from before is now gone.

One other comment.....with less pressure on the PC, I am having trouble keeping that pad from spinning off the backing plate. The pad is relatively new, so time for a new backing plate maybe?

I don`t have much frame of reference, but from what I am hearing and experiencing, this Ford paint must be VERY soft to be affected so much by SSR1. Also, I tried a small section with SSR2.5 and the orange pad using the same techniques, and the leftover hazing when I was done was significant enough that it took two more passes with SSR1 to get rid of it. Some people say you can go straight from SSR2.5 and orange pad to LSP, but unless I am doing something wrong again, there is NO way you could do this on my truck.

Thanks again for the input everyone. I am frustrated that I have wasted so much time getting crappy results, but relieved to know that the mess I made can at least be corrected.

Oh, and 99MustangGTVert, you are 100% correct that there was some leftover product in those pictures you were looking at. That was making the damage look worse than it really was, but even when cleaned very thoroughly, the hazing that I caused with SSR1 was still very evident.

**scary bill** · 05-16-2008, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by BigFly10

Okay, well I went out last night and tackled my driver`s side panel with SSR1 and the white pad again, this time using significantly less product and working it in longer. The other thing I figured out after doing a little more reading is that I was putting too much pressure on the PC so that I was stopping it from spinning. Not sure how significant this is, but it certainly couldn`t have helped.

I addressed these issues and tried again, this time with my halogen light close by for inspection and the results appear to be MUCH better. I haven`t gotten it in the sunlight yet as the ultimate test, but I am pretty sure that the obvious hazing from before is now gone.

One other comment.....with less pressure on the PC, I am having trouble keeping that pad from spinning off the backing plate. The pad is relatively new, so time for a new backing plate maybe?

I don`t have much frame of reference, but from what I am hearing and experiencing, this Ford paint must be VERY soft to be affected so much by SSR1. Also, I tried a small section with SSR2.5 and the orange pad using the same techniques, and the leftover hazing when I was done was significant enough that it took two more passes with SSR1 to get rid of it. Some people say you can go straight from SSR2.5 and orange pad to LSP, but unless I am doing something wrong again, there is NO way you could do this on my truck.

Thanks again for the input everyone. I am frustrated that I have wasted so much time getting crappy results, but relieved to know that the mess I made can at least be corrected.

Oh, and 99MustangGTVert, you are 100% correct that there was some leftover product in those pictures you were looking at. That was making the damage look worse than it really was, but even when cleaned very thoroughly, the hazing that I caused with SSR1 was still very evident.

You are seeing what I have seen with my truck. Ford paint is easy to correct, and any aggressive pads/polish seems to do more harm than good. Don`t get too discouraged,as I came to the same problems. Just keep at it and you`ll get there. Don`t rush a PC, it will cause more of a mess. One thing I have done is to pick one panel, like a door/hood/fender. Work that 1 panel until you are happy with it, even if it takes hours. Then move on, wait a day or week if you need. No need to get burnt out polishing because you will be tempted to rush the job.

:work:

**scary bill** · 05-16-2008, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

scary Bill- Thanks for not taking my post the wrong way. I sometimes get a bit exasperated when really serious detailers suggest "expert-level" approaches to newbies, who I feel are likely to just say "oh, forget it...", and I didn`t mean to take out my frustration on you or anyone else in particular.

Yeah, we all have our favorite machines; mine is the Cyclo, I simply like it better than either of my rotaries :nixweiss I agree about the PC, I don`t like using that vibration-machine much either but I put up with it for small spot-repairs.

And yeah, sometimes even the white LC pad is just a bit too aggressive. Much as I generally prefer polishing pads to finishing ones, sometimes only the softest pad is gonna work.

When I`ve had *super* soft paint (it was a repaint that took forever to cure/harden) that even #80 hazed up, I used Griot`s Machine Polish #3 and it worked OK. Worked a lot better by Cyclo than by PC though, and by PC it worked best with 4" pads (which is generally true IME).

Hmm..I wonder if the pad size might make a difference :think: I`ve just hardly *ever* got those pigtail marring marks from a PC and maybe it`s because I almost always use 4" pads with mine.

I think the 1Z High Gloss would work OK for this, but I don`t work on super-soft paint hardly at all so I don`t really know. I`d be astounded if the 1Z Metallic Polish didn`t work, and some people have found it has enough cut for mild correction on soft paint. And it`d probably fill the mildest marring anyhow. Ditto for products like Autoglym SRP.

Back in the day, there were some black lacquers that were *SOFT*, and we were able to get `em OK by hand, with some pretty crude products- "hand rubbed lacquer" and all that.

Well Accumulator, it takes alot more than that to :angry me, and I didn`t take you as :nono too much.

I have thought about getting either 4" pads for the PC or a cyclo, but I settled on the Hitachi and as for now I am really content with it. What do you think of using a 4" black/blue pad by PC for final fininshing? I wonder if that might leave a 100% haze free finish. 5.5" white pads break polish down ok by pc, but always leave micromarring(not acceptable) I only have 6.5" blue and black right now, they don`t seem to break the polish down correctly as they will haze the surface worst. 4" pads might be what I`m after. I wonder how long it would take to do a 1/2 truck with 4" pads? :nervous2:

I don`t like to put the rotary in places I don`t have 100% control over it, so those places don`t get polished well. If the PC can get there safer I might have to look into it. Seems there`s always something to buy, anyhow.

**Accumulator** · 05-17-2008, 04:21 PM

scary bill- Noting that I don`t work on problematically-soft paints, I never have problems finishing out with the PC/4" (even though I do a lot more work via Cyclo). With the right (i.e., mild) polish it works great.

The last time I polished I finished things off with blue Sonus finishing pads on the Cyclo with 1Z High Gloss. Made an already great finish even better. So a finishing pad/finishing polish combo oughta work great for what you`re encountering with the LC white pads leaving marring.

I can never finish out 100% hologram-free by rotary anyhow, so I always do my final work with the PC/Cyclos and it never causes any problems at all.

BigFly10- Glad to hear you`re getting things sorted out. There is a bit of a learning curve with this stuff, even though some people make it sound like a no-brainer.

It does sound like you need a new backing plate (or pads :nixweiss ) though.

Oh, and I`ve never been satisfied with the finish left by orange pads, even on hard clears like our Audis, so no, it`s not just you

**scary bill** · 05-18-2008, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

scary bill- Noting that I don`t work on problematically-soft paints, I never have problems finishing out with the PC/4" (even though I do a lot more work via Cyclo). With the right (i.e., mild) polish it works great.

The last time I polished I finished things off with blue Sonus finishing pads on the Cyclo with 1Z High Gloss. Made an already great finish even better. So a finishing pad/finishing polish combo oughta work great for what you`re encountering with the LC white pads leaving marring.

I can never finish out 100% hologram-free by rotary anyhow, so I always do my final work with the PC/Cyclos and it never causes any problems at all.

Thanks.

I really need to get my Lighting back out in the sun to see if my trails were fixed, yet. I was able to get OP on a white pad to fininsh perfect on most of the truck, but as goof on my part I tried to use OP and #82 with a LC blue on the rotary. I only did it on the door and the tailgate-the only reason I used it in the first place was to remove some DA marks from a LC black/#82. I just recently used 3m UF LC blue and the rotary on the door and tailgate. I also used the UF by PC and the blue on the bottom of the door. It looks great in a of the lighting I threw at it so far, but I havent had it in the sun yet. I hope for no da haze :nervous2:. Otherwise I will look into 4" pads. There are places I won`t put a rotary, but a DA is Fine.

It is odd to me that I rarely get trails from a white pad by rotary, but I get a horrible finish with th PC using the same products

All I know is the my lightnig had finicky *soft* paint. My Ranger-not so much :nixweiss