Oh, Come ON!!!, Give me a BREAK!!!!

[ron231]

Megs #80 followed by poliseal in some areas using PC and white 5.5" Lake Country White pads at Speed 6. I did a 50/50 wipedown on my test spot to make sure the defects weren`t filled by 80 (and they never are if broken down properly in my experience). I`m very "fluent" with the PC so I`m 100% positive that the swirls were removed and not filled.

You`d be surprised what #80 fills that sometimes a 50/50 wipedown in a test area may not reveal. I have done more testing of this recently and Todd is right, its absolutely amazing how much normal abrasive polishes fill even when you break down the abrasives fully (dont even try to tell me I dont work them long enough).



It isnt intentional with products like optimum and menzerna, its just the lubricating oils etc... that are filling. However, #80 has some intentional fillers along with it`s abrasives.



if you really want to test for fillers, wipe down liberally with griots paint prep.





As for ONR, ONR with a GS is terrible IMO, but sheepskin+ONR is amazing for me.

[iamwiz82]

I had the same issue with ONR not having enough lube. Someone suggested pre-soaking each area with ONR QD and it worked like a charm. No scratches since.

[CleanGSR]

Has enough lubrication for me to use at wash strength (not QD strength) as a clay lube. I`ve probably washed close to 2000 cars with ONR since it came out and I have had no problems. :nixweiss



==================



I have found that waffle weaves are not ideal for ONR since they have so little nap. Regular MFs work a lot better. In addition, when making your first drying pass, make sure some moisture is left on the paint for the second drying pass or you can get drying streaks...in fact, I think what you may be seeing are drying streaks. Try some OD and see if that removes what you are seeing.



My 626 had super soft paint too, and I found that I could actually wash it more gently with ONR since I could see exactly what I was doing the whole time-no suds in the way.

You may be right, it could just be streaking.....pretty sure it`s not but I`ll double check. It will have to wait until next wash since it`s really dusty again.

You`d be surprised what #80 fills that sometimes a 50/50 wipedown in a test area may not reveal. I have done more testing of this recently and Todd is right, its absolutely amazing how much normal abrasive polishes fill even when you break down the abrasives fully (dont even try to tell me I dont work them long enough).



It isnt intentional with products like optimum and menzerna, its just the lubricating oils etc... that are filling. However, #80 has some intentional fillers along with it`s abrasives.



if you really want to test for fillers, wipe down liberally with griots paint prep.





As for ONR, ONR with a GS is terrible IMO, but sheepskin+ONR is amazing for me.

I know that they were not filled. Don`t know how to express that more. I`ve used #80 before many times on mine and many other vehicles and have always had good luck. I tried SFX-2 also and it removed them the same (no fillers), but the 80 worked better in the cold than SFX-2. Also the areas that got poliseal at speed 6 on LC White pad would have removed any fillers and no swirls reappeared.



I don`t think people are realizing how hairline these swirls are compared to what we see on customer cars. These are very, very minor and nowhere near the type of swirls that I just polished out. I polished out swirls from 5 months of winter ice, quick washing, etc.... and they were pretty bad....the ones that returned are very minor, in the direction of the wash, and clearly not the same swirls if you could have seen both.



Oh, and this last ONR wash was with the Sheepsking mitt, not the Grout Sponge, so we can take that variable out.

I had the same issue with ONR not having enough lube. Someone suggested pre-soaking each area with ONR QD and it worked like a charm. No scratches since.

I do pre-soak the panels with ONR QD, but it doesn`t seem to have helped.

[elitemobile]

im up in the air about poli-seals "non-filling" abilities

[Bert]

If you get a foam gun you can use Accumulator`s borderline Obsessive Compulsive method to swirl free washing. If you don`t know what I am talking about, do a search of threads started bv Accum.

[ej8tunerman]

I really think it is your waffle weave; I always use a Viking deep nap drying towel for ONR and had never had any issues. One day I decided to try a waffle weave and my paint was swirled to hell. This is on my 1998 Honda Civic. Actually, while the OEM paint left on it is soft, the repainted panels are wayy softer and are usually what I have problems with if anything at all. I would definately use a deep nap microfiber towel for ONR.

[CleanGSR]

Like I said...I`ve tested my waffle weaves on a freshly polished surface with no lubrication...under halogens and they didn`t micromarr the surface.



That said, I`m not convinced that they aren`t potentially the problem. I`ll drying and Qding under halogen`s EVERY TIME after polishing again to confirm that they`re gone.

[pampos]

I have the same problem with my Honda Accord.Every time i wash it,with much much care and extremely carefully,i got some swirls too.All Honda paints are very soft that`s why swirls appears so easily.they suggest me to use a sealant with fillers just not to remove every week some clearcoat to remove swirls.i am thinking for repaint it by a harder paint or at least harder clearcoat.i am also think about trying the self healing clear coat.That clear coat has the ability to close up scratches, swirls,and need no polishing at least for 3 years.But the problem is that it will cost about $4000 and i have no idea what is gonna happen after 3 years.

[Accumulator]

CleanGSR- Sorry to hear the paint got marred. I for one believe that yes, you are capable of correctly discerning what happened. Could be that ONR simply isn`t the right approach for you; it`s not the right approach for me on most occasions either.



That doesn`t mean it`s not perfect for somebody else and I`m glad it works so well for so many people.



One thing I will contribute: when washing, if you move your wash medium in short, interrupted, "jiggling" motions, any marring that you do get will be more likely to consist of short little scratches, which probably won`t show as badly as longer ones. There`s also a greater chance that dirt will become dislodged/flushed away during one of the interruptions (this is a lot more likely to happen if you`re blasting foamgun output between the mitt/brush/sponge/whatever and the paint).

[wannafbody]

I remember stating a while back that No Rinse washes can marr paint and was told that I was dead wrong. Well, I think No Rinse washes can work for some people and some paints. I think the issue is twofold. Soft paint and the type of "dirt" you are washing off. Dust and actual dirt are fine but if you have gritty dirt such as gravel dust or sand dust then IMO the chance for marring significantly increases.

[OCKlasse]

My dad`s Ferrari has EXTREMELY soft clear coat. I wash it with ONR and never get any sorts of marring. It does mar if spray detailed, though.

[CleanGSR]

I have the same problem with my Honda Accord.Every time i wash it,with much much care and extremely carefully,i got some swirls too.All Honda paints are very soft that`s why swirls appears so easily.they suggest me to use a sealant with fillers just not to remove every week some clearcoat to remove swirls.i am thinking for repaint it by a harder paint or at least harder clearcoat.i am also think about trying the self healing clear coat.That clear coat has the ability to close up scratches, swirls,and need no polishing at least for 3 years.But the problem is that it will cost about $4000 and i have no idea what is gonna happen after 3 years.

I`ve thought of this. I`m wondering if it would be possible to have the current paint/clear sanded and cleared over the existing stuff or if you would need a complete repaint.

CleanGSR- Sorry to hear the paint got marred. I for one believe that yes, you are capable of correctly discerning what happened. Could be that ONR simply isn`t the right approach for you; it`s not the right approach for me on most occasions either.



That doesn`t mean it`s not perfect for somebody else and I`m glad it works so well for so many people.



One thing I will contribute: when washing, if you move your wash medium in short, interrupted, "jiggling" motions, any marring that you do get will be more likely to consist of short little scratches, which probably won`t show as badly as longer ones. There`s also a greater chance that dirt will become dislodged/flushed away during one of the interruptions (this is a lot more likely to happen if you`re blasting foamgun output between the mitt/brush/sponge/whatever and the paint).

Thanks for the vote of confidence. It`s nice that somebody in here finally trusts that I can see what is happening to the paint instead assuming I`m just filling them. I think I`m going to try your "giggle" method and also try only swiping about 1 foot at a time before rinsing and re-soaping the mitt. Then, leaf blow dry and blot dry the rest and QD under halogen`s. I`m determined to pinpoint what part of my wash cycle is producing the marring.

[CleanGSR]

My dad`s Ferrari has EXTREMELY soft clear coat. I wash it with ONR and never get any sorts of marring. It does mar if spray detailed, though.

Well, seeing as it`s a Ferrari, doesn`t that mean that the hand of God is helping watch over the car? I don`t have such a luxury with my Honder made product.:aww:

[imported_weekendwarrior]

I think I`m going to try your "giggle" method and also try only swiping about 1 foot at a time before rinsing and re-soaping the mitt. - Quote CleanGSR



The "giggle" method? I don`t think laughing while you dry is going to help with the marring:LOLOL



Just kidding

[pampos]

As my car painter told me it is only needed to remove only the clearcoat and not the paint.just sand the clear coat and apply a new fresh coat of that "magic" clearcoat.It is the same clearcoat that Nissan use on some models by special request (i think Nissan Xtrail )