Clearcoat Failure

[2.5RS]

1998 Honda Civic EX, Black. I dunno where this thing was parked, but the paint is hammered.







You can see (obviously) the section that was polished. I used OHC on a white pad at about 1500 rpm.



Anyway, I told him we`d go over the roof completely next week when my Hi-Temp extreme cut showed up, but that it wasn`t going to improve much more and that he was going to need to get it repainted. My question to you all is, where does clear coat failure occur? Does it fail at the surface and work its way down? or does it fail at the point where the basecoat and clear meet and work its way up? This is the first vehicle I`d worked on with CC failure and realized that I didn`t really understand what was going on.



Thanks

- Andrew

[Scottwax]

Honestly, you should tell him to save his detailing money for a paint job. Anything you do will be very short lived at best.

[2.5RS]

Honestly, you should tell him to save his detailing money for a paint job. Anything you do will be very short lived at best.

No charge, it`s my sisters boyfriend, so we just thought we`d give it a shot to see if it made any improvement at all. Plus I just do this for fun, y`know friends and family sorta deal. We both realize that the paint is garbage. At this point I`m more curious about how/why CC failure occurs since I know I can`t correct it.



- Andrew

[Changeling]

I don`t know jack about paint, but it`s easy to see you want to learn and I respect that!



That problem should be addressed by a "paint" expert for finding out what the cause was! I really would be interested in hearing there answers!



For what it`s worth, totally neglecting (in this time frame) any vehicles paint on that year of a vehicle would make me start hammering on the manufacturers "Ears" extremely hard!!!

1998 to 2006, about 9 years. I`ve seen cars in junk yards 3 times that with less damage!!



Here is what I would do (since it is family, somewhat):

I would take some really good pictures of the vehicle (after regular washing and drying), send them to the manufacturer (Not Dealer)! Don`t be abusive in your description or offensive in your language!!!! The pictures will show "All of That". Request some assistance in correcting the problem. If they blow you off, write them again, informing them you will post the pictures on your web site with all manufacture comments that you have received. You cannot be sued for posting there comments (keep all comments, email, letters, etc,). At no point in time be hostel or use bad language.

Good luck, Changeling

[Changeling]

No charge, it`s my sisters boyfriend, so we just thought we`d give it a shot to see if it made any improvement at all. Plus I just do this for fun, y`know friends and family sorta deal. We both realize that the paint is garbage. At this point I`m more curious about how/why CC failure occurs since I know I can`t correct it.



- Andrew

I forgot to add: If your sister has any idea of matrimony with someone who would put up with that condition on his vehicle, isn`t exactly a prime candidate for any long term relationship!

Sorry if I offended you are her, but the facts pretty well speak for themselves!



As the brother, I applaud you for making an attempt, that tells me you aren`t a lazy bone head, just a great brother trying to cover up an AH`s relationship with your sister.

You will go far sir, if you keep this perspective on life! The best of luck to you.

Changeling

[ZoranC]

If your sister has any idea of matrimony with someone who would put up with that condition on his vehicle, isn`t exactly a prime candidate for any long term relationship!



... an AH`s relationship with your sister.

Changeling, your comment was completely inappropriate and way out of line.

[velobard]

Changeling, your comment was completely inappropriate and way out of line.

I took it as completely tongue-in-cheek.

[2.5RS]

I forgot to add: If your sister has any idea of matrimony with someone who would put up with that condition on his vehicle, isn`t exactly a prime candidate for any long term relationship!

Sorry if I offended you are her, but the facts pretty well speak for themselves!

Ha! No offense taken, actually he just purchased the vehicle so its current condition is more the previous owners doing than anything. We can`t always afford the nicest vehicles can we? Anyway, I think he is planning on getting it repainted when funds allow, but college kids are usually broke for a couple years! So we`ll just make it look as nice as the conditions permit and go with it.



- Andrew

[TriumphGT6]

If you and he have some time on your hands, take a look into doing this:







I found a link to this while surfing a fiero forum; This guy painted this Charger with Tremclad/Rustoleum and a roller.



LINK TO THREAD



While it ain`t gonna win any shows, it`s a cheap way for someone without an HVLP gun and the experience to get paint on a surface.



Shake and Bake,

TriumphGT6

[MorBid]

The Clear coat is what provides protection to the pigmented paint (base coat). So it more than likely occurs in the Cleat Coat itself. If the Cleat Coat hasn`t been properly maintained and exposed to harsh conditions eventually it`ll loose the abiility to shine and protect the paint underneath.



Conditions like this are sometimes referred to as Chalking.



Pick a spot a try wetsanding (15k --> 2k --->2.5k) followed by a the use of decent compound w/a rotary (PC has no place here). Use cutting pads at first the polishing after.



You`ve got nothing to loose and everything to gain at this point. As always when wetsanding work slow, inspect progress often and know when to stop.



MorBiD

[Changeling]

Ha! No offense taken, actually he just purchased the vehicle so its current condition is more the previous owners doing than anything. We can`t always afford the nicest vehicles can we? Anyway, I think he is planning on getting it repainted when funds allow, but college kids are usually broke for a couple years! So we`ll just make it look as nice as the conditions permit and go with it.



- Andrew

Sir, I spoke to harshly evidently, with out considering the possibility`s of your circumstances!

I remember the trials and tribulations of attending college! However I just plain didn`t take the time or think before I opened my big mouth! Please accept my apology for not asking intelligent questions before I started to "Rave".



On second thought, we aren`t talking a vehicle here that can be pulled back from it`s reality with detailing. Since it is not a subject of restoration but one of respectability, I strongly suggest the following:



In most areas there is a discount paint shop that specializes in quick paint jobs that are usually less than optimal! However if you go in and talk to the manager and explain your/her situation there is a lot that can be done if you don`t mind a little work in prepping the vehicle before they get there hands on it. Make sure he under stands the situation and "ask" for his advise! Some of these guys shoot/paint more vehicles in a month than a custom shop doe`s in a year or more. If it doesn`t sound like a good deal, try another shop. They will realize that due to the make/year/etc, that they aren`t going to make a bundle and be more inclined to let you prep, run it in , paint! Something is better than nothing in there eyes, especially if you have prepped the car.

Good luck, and again, very sorry for the fast judging!

Changeling

[sneek]

If you and he have some time on your hands, take a look into doing this:







I found a link to this while surfing a fiero forum; This guy painted this Charger with Tremclad/Rustoleum and a roller.



LINK TO THREAD



While it ain`t gonna win any shows, it`s a cheap way for someone without an HVLP gun and the experience to get paint on a surface.



Shake and Bake,

TriumphGT6

oh the $50 paint job comes up again.



I was shocked that someone with at 356 would let someone with a paint roller and tremclad paint their car.



With that said, tremclad (Canada) is awesome stuff for painting over rusted surfaces. The actually have automotive paints, but that guy just used regular rust paint. The $50 paint job is awsome for a metal railing...not for your car!

[PRB]

Conditions like this are sometimes referred to as Chalking.

"Chalking" is an old term that was adopted from the chalky white appearance of a highly oxidized single stage paint finish. Blacks looked filthy and grey, blue looked greyish, and red could often chalk its way to pink with a white coating. Think of a schoolroom chalkboard that had been used all day long, erased repeatedly, and that had not been washed at the end of the day. The "blackboard" would take on a chalky white appearance from all the powder spread around it. Just as the blackboard, one could rub their finger through the chalk on the paint and make designs or write their name in the whitish areas.



Clear failure is a bit different in appearance as it generally does not get powdery to the touch. Appearancewise, it begins as a dullness on top of the finish. The untrained eye sees it is just dull and in need of a good polishing to restore it. Polish can help appearance, in the early stages, but the paint is already too far gone to stop the damage.



Without delving into chemistry, the topcoat is actually becoming "unstable"; that is, it is beginning to fail chemically, meaning it is beyond its useful life as a clean, glossy topcoat. What you do to the outermost layer of it (sanding, compounding, polishing) will not help what`s happening a little deeper. Polishing off the top bit of failing clear leads to the rest of the failing clear. At this point, it is better to have more bad clear than to sand away some of it in hopes of temporarily adding some gloss.



As the "failure" becomes more evident, you will see a cloudiness that does not go away with polishing. Closer inspection will show checking/crazing/cracking of the clear and, as the spots grow, they will look like the pictures in this thread. As the condition worsens, it will begin to flake and peel off, much as dead skin a week after a severe sunburn.



Causes for this are numerous. UV exposure and heat are the major culprits. Look at a car with its factory finish and you`ll usually see most or all of the failure starting on the hood, then roof before other areas of the finish.