LGCM & Carpet/Upholstry

[tustah]

I spent maybe an hour reading through threads about the LGCM and me being a weekend warrior, I need something that`s within my budget. I will head out and purchase it today.



As far as the type of product used to clean carpet, I take it that Folex is the "go to" product for carpet cleaning. All I need is this one, right?







I also have Simple Green already, but I`m not sure how effective it will be.



If there are any other alternatives, please let me know. It looks like I`ll go with Folex because Walmart and Lowes are right next to each other near my place.



Where can I purchase a brush to scrub the carpet after applying Folex? I`ve seen the Meguiar`s gold class all interior brush but it feels very stiff/firm.



As to cloth seats, do I use the same procedure as cleaning the carpet?

[Envious Eric]

i have simple green too....it works ok, but smells....if you dont like the smell...some do and some dont....then use it, but ask the customer/yourself if you want to live with it for a while....

[tustah]

anyone else with input?

[imported_Grouse]

LOL, well tustah.. where do i begin. How about some of my old posts



edit



these are out of context but the information is good.

Well the key is knowing what your doing. If your taking a stab in the dark, then you really don`t have a clue. IMHO you should seek some good training. Via IICRC classes. even the basic classes will set you on the right road to a sucessfull cleaning system.



You can effectivly clean a carpet in a car with



1/2 gallon garden sprayer,

the right chemicals

a shop vac

a small fan.



you can clean a carpet effectively with

a ho````er truckmount

and chemicals



you can clean it effectively with

a dense sponge,

bucket,

vacuum

towels



you can... well you get the picture. It is about knowing the process the chemicals, and what each situation entails. Some will take far longer than others, some will take less.

It is possible to use it as a agitator to work in the chemical product to reduce the time or heat needed for the product to work.



In that instance you could do just as well with a wool or terry bonnet, as it will not heat up the fibers as much as a brush. The fibers ina car are very heat sensitive.



Now if you wanted to aid your drying process after you cleaned the fiber, take a clean dry bonnet or wool padd an run it over the top of the fibers, switching bonnets when it becomes too wet.



This is commonly refered to as bonnet cleaning, In many cases i have used it in comercial buisness to keep the fiber from wicking caked in dirt up to the surface. Carpet and fiber dries top bottom up. It evaporates from the surface drawing the remaining moisture to the surface, in many cases bring the dirt and grime with it. It`s rare for it to bring dirt from the backing, or pad. It`s possible but you`d have to basically flood the car.



In reality even with the best combo of systems you can only clean about 70-80% of the fiber carpet surface, so you will have grime and soils left in the carpet. The key is to leave so little moisture that the carpet does not have time to migrate those soils to the surface.



To do this you should follow a very tight regimn of cleaning proceedures.



1) dry vac



2) dry vac again.



90-95% of the soils in the fiber are dry particulate dirt, best removed by dry vacuuming. if you add moisture to a poorly vacuumed fiber/carpet you have to work 10 times harder than needed with 10 times the amount of chemical and water than is needed. With 3-4 times the drying time. So dry vac very thoroughly. Use multiple attachments.



3)Pre condition stains and spots.



Why do this now? Because stain removers work best when applied to virgin stains, In many cases if not all that i can think of right now detergents will inhibit the stain removers if applied before the stain remover. So spot treat trouble areas first, Buy specific products for those areas. lightly rub them in and let them sit while you prepare you chemicals for the main area.



4) Pre treat the fiber/carpet with cleaner.



use a proper cleaning product. Read the dilution ratio`s More product is not better or, lower dilution. These products work in conjunction with water, improperly mixing them will provide very poor results. Normal carpet cleaning agents are 32 parts water to 1 part solution. Once applied Brush in with your brush or PC if you feel the need. Despite what you think agitation will not improve your dirt removal. In many cases you`ll keep the detergent from working by agitating too much. In some cases you will distort the fiber. (velvet it) The purpose of agitation is not to break dirt free, but to get your cleaning product to as much surface of the fiber as possible. So light agitation will suffice.



5) Extraction,

You can use a bonnet method i mentioned above, think Chem-dry the nationally owned chain.

You can extract with shop vac and 1/2 gallon pump sprayer of clean water or water 1ith 1/2 oz of vinager mixed itn

You can extract with LGCM or similar tool.

You can extract by buffing with a towel.

You can use a HW extractor.



The key is to get the fiber clean, then get it dry as possible, then get it set up for the shortest drying time as possible.



6) Drying.

There is little air movement in a car, So turn the fans on crack the windows, set up small portable blowers. The faster you get this dry the less soil wicking you will have. Adding significant air movement and ventalation will cut drying time in half if not by 3/4. Adding the bonnet buffing i mentioned befor can make even a HW extracted carpet dry with in 45-1 hour of finishing.

I disagree autopresise. but as they say Put ten carpet cleaners in a room and you`ll have 10 ways to clean carpet.



Rag the key is to dry the fiber in about 4-6 hours. any more than that and you could have wicking of soil to the surface.



tufted fiber dries top bottom up. That means it evaporates from the surface drawing the remaining moisture up. If the drying time is excessive it will also bring up any remaining soils.



so, how do you get it to dry in 4-6 hours.



first you dry vack with ho````er extractor about 3 times for every time you pull the trigger on the hand tool. that is the basic standard 3:1, if carpet is exceptionally soiled 4:1.



finally you add air movement. Lots of it. get that air moving accross that fiber to dry it off. what is small and would fit in a car,truck? drop two of these in the rear or in each seating section blowing dry air across the fiber. drying time should be cut by as much as 4 hours for really wet fiber.



http://www.interlinksupply.com/index...++++++++++++++



the first one is new to me. but I used these in the carpet industry for tight spaces and steps because of their size.



I purchased one for my dad for christmas for his boat. I prefer these over the first one because you can set this one up side down to blow air under seats. I`ve used it once or twice in my mom`s car to very good effect.



7631245541

Depending on the PH of the product you use you`ll want to bring that ph back to Neuatral before you apply any protectants.



Neutral detergents make for (in general) poor cleaners, They make better specific spot removers.



alkaline cleaners make for great dirt and grime cleaners. but do very poorly on tanins, urines, and protien based soils.



Acidic detergents make for poor dirt removals, but do very well on urines, tanin, some protien based stains, and some food based dyes.



Enzymes are usually reserved for organics like foodstuffs, grass, and others.



Solvents, make for very poor detergents as they have almost no cleaning ability. However wehn combined with an alkaline detergent you will finde a combo that will defeat many oily soils found in cars. Apply the solvent to fiber first, work in with brush, then apply AK detergent.



The kicker is nearly every car is going to have a combo of this mess. So you need to be knowledgeable to address each with the propper product so you will have the best chance of sucess.

mix it up in a garden sprayer with as much hot water as you can. (be careful the hot water and chem will create pressure in container.)



Spray liberally in to fiber area.



Brush into fiber, Not so much for agitation but to be sure the product is completely coating the fiber.



Let sit or dwell for 20 min or so. give or take.



Here you might be able to apply the steam to improve the cleaning potential. it`s worth a try.



With a second garden spray spray with clean clear hot water. spray one section at a time.



extract with shop vac.



spray rinse water again in same area. I believe you`ll need to rinse it at least 3 times to get as much of the slurry or TLC out of the fiber.



Dry with vac between each rinse.



Set up fans or blowers to move the air with in the vehicle to speed drying process.

[tustah]

Thanks for the response Grouse.



Things I learned:

- Use the right type of agent for each stain. Folex claims it is an all purpose cleaner, removing any type of stain. What are your thoughts on Folex?

- Dry the car as fast as you can to prevent wicking of soil. I`m not sure if this fan is strong enough, but it`s the only one I have right now:



- Use brush to help cleaning agent get into as much fibers as possible, not agitating. Would you be padding the stains/spots with the brush or would you be making light strokes with the brush?

- Wet Vac at least 3 times to ensure all solvents are out.



You also mentioned restoring the pH before applying a protectant. How would you go about doing that? Also, what brush would you recommend using?

[imported_Grouse]

folex if they have not changed their formula is a fairly good neutral spotter.



Depending on the PH of the product you use you`ll want to bring that ph back to Neuatral before you apply any protectants.



Neutral detergents make for (in general) poor cleaners, They make better specific spot removers.



alkaline cleaners make for great dirt and grime cleaners. but do very poorly on tanins, urines, and protien based soils.



Acidic detergents make for poor dirt removals, but do very well on urines, tanin, some protien based stains, and some food based dyes.



Enzymes are usually reserved for organics like foodstuffs, grass, and others.



Solvents, make for very poor detergents as they have almost no cleaning ability. However wehn combined with an alkaline detergent you will finde a combo that will defeat many oily soils found in cars. Apply the solvent to fiber first, work in with brush, then apply AK detergent.

[tustah]

For all you guys that use Folex + LGCM:



-Do you pretreat with Folex at maximum strength?

-Do you use Folex misture (1:4) inside the LGCM or just hot water?

[imported_Grouse]

pre treat and pre condition are two different things in the carpet world.



Pre treat is to deal with a specific spot or stain only.



pre condition is to apply a detergent before the actually cleaning starts, brush in lightly, wait for it to dwell, and extract.



In both cases with folex 1:1 can be done.



Certainly when pre-treating i use 1:1



in pre conditioning i usually cut 8:1 with my OTC detergents, if i am using a HWE i cut at the recomended 32:1



As for extraction. This is an iffy area. If the carpet required more cleaning power, ie more than just the pre conditioning. Then yes use the folex in the rinse tank 32:1. If not you could use a mixture of 32:1 distilled vineager or just plain hot water.



finish off with a really good amount of drying strokes from a shop vac, and apply vast amounts of air movement.

[gav'spurplez]

I guess I use the economy corner when it comes to carpet cleaning.



I have a LGCM and i buy the bissell LGCM solution from target. Slight dash of woolite and some simple green diluted for a spot treatment, seems to do the trick for me.

[awahl63]

Grouse definately is on the ball about this stuff. This is his specialty. Thanks for helping out everybody!

[imported_Grouse]

I guess I use the economy corner when it comes to carpet cleaning.



I have a LGCM and i buy the bissell LGCM solution from target. Slight dash of woolite and some simple green diluted for a spot treatment, seems to do the trick for me.

The Bissell solution is fine in moderation. Personally i think there are far better products. I`m not big on woolite, or simple green as they are not designed to work with carpet fibers, or upholstery.



Use the proper dilution. more product does not mean more cleaning.



I would almost be willing to bet that the woolite, and simple green stop much of the detergent action of the Bissell solution.



Why would it do that, well a number of things,



PH

Detergent types,

Cat-ionic,

Ionic,

Surfactants,

Water softening agents,

Optical brighteners.



Depending on the ph of the Bissell solution and i believe it is around 10.5 woolite (a mildly acidic detergent with loads of optical brighteners) will decrease the effectiveness of the Bissell.



As for the simple green, it`s a degreaser, not a detergent. The detergent from the Woolite or Bissell solution will attach its self to the simple green as it works on the carpet.



Now take into account that most carpet cleaners are ionic or cat-ionic. If you mix the two versions they will simply attach to each other in a chemical bond, being no more effective than water. How do you know which one they are? You do not unless you read the MSDS or follow a manufactures line of products close enough to know. Manufactures will usually be one or the other depending on the needs of the type of product.





Think of it this way. Detergent is shaped like a dog bone, one end is attracted to anything other than water, and the surfactants/detergent ends break lil bits of soils and oils free. While the other end is attracted to about 50 times its mass in water, this allows the soils and dirt to be rinsed free, and then vacuumed out of the fiber.



Well when you start mixing product 95% of the time the detergent will atack the degreaser, as that is the first thing it comes in contact with. Hence a greatly reduce cleaning effectiveness.



How do you negate this? Well proper procedures help. Good knowledge of your chemicals help.



Assuming the products are compatible your procedure is as follows.



Vacuum

Vacuum

Yes I preach it

Vacuum



Spot apply a degreaser/citrus type delimanine solvent to a towel, gently work over the fiber.



Let dwell about two min.



Spray preconditioning agent over the fiber area, Gently agitate the pre-conditioner into the fiber. Once again this is not scrubbing, but agitation to insure the detergent reaches as much of fiber surface area as possible.



The solvent will have worked its magic on the greasy soils and oils; the detergent will then attach to both the remaining dirt and solvents and pull them away.



Spray rinse of clear water over area,



Extract,



Spray rinse again



Extract,



Dry



Dry



Dry





So as proof positive of this concept I posted above, here is a test.



Get some oil based paint. It must be an oil based paint.



Put a dab on your hands, try to wash it off with hot water and paint thinner. It works but slowly.

Next add a tiny bit of detergent soap to this. (not anti bacterial soap these are not really soaps) Dawn works great. Work into lather and rinse.

[imported_Picus]

I use an LGM and folex quite a but. Generally my routine is to soak a stain with folex and agitate with a carpet brush; then use the LGM to extract it (hot water only); it works well. On the rest of the carpet I use the LGM with it`s detergent solution.



While we`re on the topic; grouse - set coffee stains? I know it`s hard to remove the entirely, but getting the smell out. Ideas?

[imported_Grouse]

hmm, give me a minute.



For the best chance at removing the stain.



You need to work directly on the virgin stain.



First with water and a mild neutral detergent, Folex, avenge, clean the spot. Apply detergent agitate, rinse with clear clean water.



This will remove the milk, sugars, and gunk that is in the coffee. Leaving just the dye on the fiber.

Keep in mind that decaffeinated coffee is synthetic dye, and caffeinated coffee is natural dyes. Why does this matter? They require different products.



Things you will need.

2-3 clean dry cotton terry.

1 clean wiped down iron for cloths. With a working steam setting.

1 set of pro’s choice red relief for caffeinated coffee.

1 set of pros choice stain magic for decaffeinated coffee.

1 milliliter measuring cup.

1 squeeze bottle for dispensing liquid.

1 set of rubber gloves



Put the rubber gloves on, one part of the two part solution is 45% hydrogen peroxide. Burns like BLEEP BLEEP. It literally feels like 100,000 needles are stabbing the affected area. NOT a fun thing. Wear the gloves.

Next fill up your iron and get it to full steam.

Next mix equal parts of the two part chemical mixture of red relief or the two par mixture for stain magic. They each come with a part A and part B. This step is paramount, if you are off even a little bit your results will suffer. Generally I mixed 4 oz, and 4 oz. this gave me 8 oz for a large stain. Right now you are saying well I’ll just make this up at hope and take it with me. Here is the issue, these 2 part formulas have a 5-7 minute working time. After that they do almost nothing. Be sure to mix them as your last step.



Next apply via ketchup/squeeze bottle to the stain. Completely soak the fiber.

Next lay the dry towel over the stain. The reason for the towel is to not damage the fiber from the iron, adsorb the off gassing chemical mix and help distribute the steam evenly.

Place the iron on the towel. On high steam let it set for 30 seconds. Check that area. You are looking for about 90% removal or removal to a diminishing return. As the stain cools and dries it will remove that final bit. If you go to 100% you will damage fiber and carpet dye. Making the whole area lighter. Systematically place the iron over the whole of the stain checking every 30 seconds.

After that is done.



Clean up. This is another step that if you skip your next job will suffer. You will see a bunch of dried yellow gunk in the towel and in the holes on the iron. Toss the towel to the wash. The iron will need to be wiped down while hot with a wet towel. This will remove that residue. If you leave it, every stain you try and remove will fail and the fiber will look yellow overall.





As to the odor, Once you have cleaned the coffee and removed the stain there should be very little coffee odor. If there is, then there is more coffee somewhere for you to remove. Possibly in the padding/ backing of the carpet.



Since we are not going to remove pad on the job, what can we do. Well we have 3 -4 choices for odor control.

1) Re-clean with stronger detergent.

2) Introduce a product with live enzymes (bacteria) that will eat at the left over coffee and reduce the odor. (personal fav)

3) Introduce a secondary odor to mask the coffee smell (personal fav)

4) Ozone the car over night.

So what would I do? Each of these has their merit and works well given time and energy put into it. In a situation like this I would rely on a combo. First I would use Bac-out by Bi-0-Kleen to eat at the coffee residue. These live enzyme cultures work fast and effectively. They also have a pleasant citrus smell. Lightly spritz bac-out on the carpet affected area. Keep in mind if you over wet you may have the stain wick up. So go light on the spritzing. 8-12 hours the coffee smell should be greatly diminished.



To finalize this I recommend adding an outside odor. Why? Well people associate smells with things. If the last memory of their stinky car is Coffee, then when they see their car they will smell coffee. I don’t care if you remove the carpet and replace the whole interior. 95% of the time they will tell you they smell coffee. So the only thing you can do is to override that ingrained memory with a stronger more pleasant odor. In this case I recommend buying a carpet solvent based odor neutralizers/maskers. They come in lemon, cherry, apple, leather. Dab some on a terry towel and wipe next to each door jam. This will ensure they smell it first as they open the door. Caution these are extremely powerful. You can easily create an other odor issue if you pour. Trust me when I say wipe on with a towel. In general I always carried leather, lemon, apple. I would ask the customer which the liked by letting them smell it on a clean terry towel. 95% of the time it was leather, then apple.

[imported_Picus]

Hey man - thanks for that. I just went through it twice, then printed it out! I am missing the red relief and bac-out but I think I can find them.



The stain is caffeinated coffee that has been sitting for 4 days. The only thing that`s been tried on it so far is just a wet rag, so I should be ok. The woman is more concerned about the smell than the stain. I`ll let you know how it goes.



Thanks again, sorry for the hijack guys.

[RJJ]

Simple green for me also. Some time ago the wife was taking an entire slow cooker of baked beans to a party and guess what? an entire slow cooker of baked beans ended up on the floor of her very light colored carpet.

The area was lightly soaked with a garden hose, and a full bottle of simple green was sprayed on the carpet. After using a small very brush to really work the detergent in a wet/dry vac was used to remove the the gross mess. A second and third light soaking was done and the water was throughly removed, I vacuumed the small passenger footwell for about 15 minutes.

Not a single hint of the spill was left and the carpet was fully dry the next day.