water beading...

[togwt]

Quote: theoretically if a product sheets isn`t there less chance of environmental contaminates etching the paint? wannafbody



Only if the product used completely eliminates any water from the surface and/or there are no other pollutants that remain on the surface such as; Hydrazine is an extremely active acid that is found in jet fuel. Vehicles that park in close proximity to airports or flight-paths are subject to this contaminant. Hydrochloric acid suspended in a rain droplet, the suns heat greatly accelerates the water evaporation, thereby concentrating the acid, the water evaporates on the paint film surface, and it becomes a Dioxide (a dry concentrate of the acid) a neutral substance that is until water is added.

JonM

[Corey Bit Spank]

I don`t know, I just like how the beads look so if the wax isn`t doing it anymore it`s time to get something else on there



This is a reoccuring post on autopia.

[ZaneO]

Originally posted by Corey Bit Spank

This is a reoccuring post on autopia.

No kidding, and there is still no evidence against beading indicating the presence of protectant.

[thinksnow]

When I wash cars that haven`t been washed, let alone waxed, in quite some time, they bead. For me, this indicates a miniscule level of "protection" from any gloss additives in the shampoo. Granted, this beading will not occur during the next rain, as the "protection" (used very liberally here) is gone.



With a wax or sealant (both Z and K bead very well for me), the beading lasts as long as the supposed "life." #16 lasts a couple of months, P21S lasts a little while less, and PS lasts the least amount of time of those three. I have never seen a Z or K car NOT bead because I`ve never let one go longer than 6 months or so (family`s cars). Therefore, I have to assume that beading will last as long as the protection.



I have never really understood why this remains an issue. If the surface is slick and road gunk is easy to remove, then the protection is there. Dowatchalike:nixweiss

[TortoiseAWD]

Originally posted by thinksnow

I have never really understood why this remains an issue. If the surface is slick and road gunk is easy to remove, then the protection is there. Dowatchalike:nixweiss

Amen. Personally, I don`t care if it the water beads, sheets, or does cartwheels. As long as the dirt at the next wash comes off easily, and there`s enough slickness to keep towels gliding on the surface when I dry or QD, I`m happy.



Tort

[raymond_ho2002]

Protection probably lasts longer than beading. Waxing when the beading stops is simply erring on the side of caution.



When paint loses a significant amount of its slickness, I tend to think that it`s time to polish so that i can clean off imbedded crap that`s making the paint rough.



Companies don`t want to admit that their waxes will last a 2-3 months in the real world because there will always be that competitor that will say "well OUR wax lasts 4 -5 months." Average Joe, having no other information to work with (ease of use being a factor that can be quantitated only with experience, in which case, Joe is no longer Average Joe), will automatically pick the one that supposedly lasts longer. Each side continually pushes up their durability claims to the point just below absurdness, which is 6 - 12 months.



togwt: when you evaporate the water from an aqueous acid, you`re left with a salt, not a dioxide.

[l33]

I`ve used IP and a rotary on my car then followed with FP2 and a PC and it rained before i had a chance to apply an LSP, there were still beads. Beading is not conclusive evidence of protection.

[94BlkStang]

Originally posted by raymond_ho2002





Companies don`t want to admit that their waxes will last a 2-3 months in the real world because there will always be that competitor that will say "well OUR wax lasts 4 -5 months." Average Joe, having no other information to work with (ease of use being a factor that can be quantitated only with experience, in which case, Joe is no longer Average Joe), will automatically pick the one that supposedly lasts longer. Each side continually pushes up their durability claims to the point just below absurdness, which is 6 - 12 months.

Very good points, but another point is that they don`t know what every vehicle that has their product on it will be subjected to. You have the blistering sun of the south and the freezing cold winters of the midwest and everything inbetween. How could any manufacturer make a claim to longevity with an enormous amount of variable conditions that a vehicle is subject to. Some are gargaed and some are outside 24/7.

[togwt]

Quote: togwt: when you evaporate the water from an aqueous acid, you`re left with a salt, not a dioxide.





âہ“When the water evaporates from Hydrochloric acid it becomes a salt.â€Â� Interesting, thank you

[ZaneO]

Originally posted by L33

I`ve used IP and a rotary on my car then followed with FP2 and a PC and it rained before i had a chance to apply an LSP, there were still beads. Beading is not conclusive evidence of protection.

Yes, fresh paint will bead due to high surface tension. Those beads can be measured objectively. Protection can be applied, giving a specific surface tension, and those beads can also be measured objectively and compared to the fresh paint. When those beads diminish, the substance applied to the surface is no longer there.

[Mochamanz1]

I have a beading question, I used a Sealant which beaded with tight, round beads. Te beads were small and dense. While driving at approx 65-70 for a prolonged commute, the beads just stuck to my car, didnt get swept off by the air. I though and still do, that this wasnt desirable, since , if the rain stayed in place, so would contaminates caught ,trapped in the droplets. The car was protected, but when it dried, it didnt look as good as it could have. A QD did bring back the appearance, but I didnt like the effect. Once the QG (Sonus) was applied , the problem went away. What could cause this clinging effect ?

[togwt]

togwt: when you evaporate the water from an aqueous acid, you`re left with a salt, not a dioxide.



raymond_ho2002- Would you care to comment on - www.autoint.com Dry Dioxide

This is asked in the spirit of learning and not argumentative in any way. Thanks

JonM

[JasonD]

I don`t know about you guys, but as long as my black paint is slick and looks great, I don`t care if it sheets, beads, or dances. I`m happy.

[Steve530]

Originally posted by TOGWT

togwt: when you evaporate the water from an aqueous acid, you`re left with a salt, not a dioxide.



raymond_ho2002- Would you care to comment on - www.autoint.com Dry Dioxide

This is asked in the spirit of learning and not argumentative in any way. Thanks

JonM

TOGWT,



The article you linked discusses "dry oxides" from the combustion of fossil fuels. I`m not familiar with the term "dry oxide", but I am somewhat familiar with the products of fossil fuel combustion.



I assume the "dry oxides" are sulfur oxides and nitrogen oxides - SO2, SO3, NO2, NO3, N2O, etc. These compounds do indeed react with water, often steam in the plume, to form sulfuric acid and nitric acid. As rain falls through the plume, these molecules are dissolved in the drops forming acid rain.



I never gave much thought to the issue of what compound is left behind after the drop is evaoprtated. I suppose it is reasonable to assume that the NO2 and SO2 molecules would somehow attach to a car. Generally these are gas molecules. Once again, I`m not really sure what the term "dry oxide" is supposed to mean, unless it refers to an un-hydrated NO2 or SO2 molecule. Maybe they`re refering to the NO3 and SO3 molecules.



And the issue of hydrochloric acid (HCl) is different. I have no idea what a dry oxide of hydrocloric acid would be since an oxidized HCl molecule would be H2O.

[raymond_ho2002]

Togwt,



I have to apologize that i jumped the gun with my answer; I`m very much an amateur when it comes to chemistry. Steve530`s post reminded me that oxides do dissolve into water and make it acidic, so the opposite should be true also. I would think that the oxides would come out of solution as a gas as the liquid evaporates off, so the only source of acid etching that I can think of would be from acid rain (but only while the car is wet with acid rainwater, i`m guessing). Certain metals are acidic when they ionize in water, so maybe industrial fallout is another concern when it comes to acid damage.



Steve530: HCl fumes out as a gas when it`s concentrated highly enough.