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Thread: Ammo reboot

  1. #16

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    Re: Ammo reboot

    Quote Originally Posted by Loach View Post
    Appreciate the update! I was curious to see how Reboot performed out in the real world. I can only imagine the benefits of a lower sliding angle on a less hydrophobic product to be very marginal at best. And your comparison shot is the prime example of why that is.

    Without enough water to flood the paint, these water "sheeters" are just going to bead water up about as much as the hydrophobic monsters. But you`ll never be able to match the runoff rate with a less hydrophobic product that combines a marginally lower sliding angle, compared to a hydrophobic monster with even lower sliding angles. That`s why Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax has smaller beading towards the front half of the hood in your shot. Put Sonax BSD on the paint which is even more hydrophobic and has a lower sliding angle than Griot`s and some of those larger beads towards the windshield would have likely runoff the surface.

    You can`t beat physics here. Even in a torrential downpour on a recently polished panel with no protection, the surface has enough tension to prevent flooding and form significant water beading. This is one of my raw clips I filmed about a year ago after the tail end of a rainstorm here in Florida, with the left third of the panel without any protection, the middle third with the less hydrophobic DPC Armor, and the right third with the hydrophobic Mothers CMX. Notice the similarity in the levels of water beading for each section. The ability for us to easily flood less hydrophobic protectants with a hose nozzle does not magically eliminate the ability for the water to significantly resist flooding in uncontrolled situations like a rainstorm.

    This video is not narrated:



    Even on the side panels of the car at 3:51 that flood quite easily now with the nozzle, it`s not enough volume of water hitting it during a heavy rainstorm to produce any significant sheeting, you still end up with significant beading all over it that will eventually dry up. So while I think the theory of manipulating sliding angles on protectants is interesting and it makes sense in an attempt to combat the spotting issues, I remain skeptical of any real world beading reduction pairing this feature with any mildly hydrophobic protectant. The surface has to be fully hydrophilic to see a noticeable reduction in beading.

    Griot`s Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax has been very surprising, it`s performed the best of the consumer spray ceramics in a pure durability test so far.
    Does sonax protection wise hang with th PA products?

  2. #17
    Loach's Avatar
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    Re: Ammo reboot

    Quote Originally Posted by Coatings=crack View Post
    Does sonax protection wise hang with th PA products?
    Protection is a total guess with Sonax Brilliant Shine Detailer, I`m not sure how the protection of the polymers inside that formula stack up against the SiO2/TiO2 Polish Angel blends. I would not want to use BSD without some sort of base protectant as a precaution. But I have seen it go over 4 months by itself at 1 coat when I ran the test next to Optimum Car Wax. It was super tired at that point, but it was still sheeting slightly where OCW was 100% hydrophilic. Cosmic Spritz and High Gloss I`ve never taken through a pure long term durability test by themselves yet. This was BSD and OCW at 2.5 months no toppers: https://youtu.be/pAYK52GfNPo

  3. #18
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    Re: Ammo reboot

    All I’m saying is that I’ve always seen a correlation between small, tight, tall standing beads (coating for example) and sheeting capability. Larger beads tend to sheet less, generally speaking from most tests I’ve done.

    I agree SNS isn’t a great sheeter. And it doesn’t have those tight beads.

  4. #19

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    Re: Ammo reboot

    Quote Originally Posted by acuRAS82 View Post
    All I’m saying is that I’ve always seen a correlation between small, tight, tall standing beads (coating for example) and sheeting capability. Larger beads tend to sheet less, generally speaking from most tests I’ve done.

    I agree SNS isn’t a great sheeter. And it doesn’t have those tight beads.
    I`ve done work in a lab where I`ve seen tight beads that roll off and tight beads that don`t roll off as well. We`re not talking a huge difference in angle though. Totally agree that as you lower the contact angle you`re going to start wetting the surface and water is going to stick.

  5. #20

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    Re: Ammo reboot

    Quote Originally Posted by Coatings=crack View Post
    So drove through some rain today. Water beading and beads running off of the hood Griots ceramic wax clear winner. Beads flew off 2-3 times faster.

    May not be a clear comparison as griots is a true 6 month sealant and reboot is a topper for a sealant with 2-3 month durability but recommended to use monthly.

    Griots CW 3-1 is really impressing tho... not to take away from it. Hopefully report back in a month

    [...]

    Both on bare hood that went through coating decon wash


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the pics! Yep that`s about what Reboot looked like for me on the flat surfaces after a pressure wash. I got decent roll-off on the angled parts of my hood because the lumpy beads rolled together and had enough volume to slide off. Also we`re talking about two hydrophobic surfaces here, just Griots outperforms Reboot in this respect.

  6. #21

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    Re: Ammo reboot

    So if one were to use a product that is more suited to beading and a product that more more suited to sheeting on the same where where would you use each product?

    Horizontal panels should you use the beading product?

    AND

    Vertical surfaces use the sheeting product?

    Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

  7. #22

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    Re: Ammo reboot

    Quote Originally Posted by Astouffer512 View Post
    So if one were to use a product that is more suited to beading and a product that more more suited to sheeting on the same where where would you use each product?

    Horizontal panels should you use the beading product?

    AND

    Vertical surfaces use the sheeting product?

    Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
    Nah not worth overthinking in my unprofessional opinion. If you take a product with great water beading and let it wear those water beads will eventually get lumpier. Some products like Reboot are lumpier from the get-go. I think Larry`s point with the whole thing was water beading isn`t the end-all be-all to protection. Whatever ingredients he chose for the characteristics he wanted in the product simply don`t bead water like crazy. I think he needs to explain it more.
    Likes acuRAS82 liked this post

  8. #23

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    Re: Ammo reboot

    Yeah beads, sheeting it’s all about getting the water off your car TW Seal&Shine was a good beader but the beads didnt Slide off easily. It was my griots vs S&S test that made me realize that beads dont matter. Its getting the water off your car that does


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Likes DetailZeus, dwaleke liked this post

 

 
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