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  1. #1

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    Bodyshop contamination RE: si02 Spray Sealants

    Hi folks,

    First off, I love using si02 coatings for my personal vehicles due to the sheer amount of time I can cut off maintaining a fleet of toys.

    But with respect to bodyshop contaminants, can anyone speak more about si02 coatings and the potential "contamination" of body panels (painted or otherwise) and more importantly, a bodyshop`s "clean working environment" with (potential) silicone residue that is left behind when using a product with "spray and rinse" application?

    I read somewhere that these "spray and rinse application" products may become a bodyshop nightmare. Silicone for sure, but I`m not sure if si02 is the same thing.
    Assuming it is an issue, in the unfortunate event of requiring bodywork, what is the recommended "heads up" that should be communicated?

    Recent feedback that I read from a local forum:
    Friends car went in to repaint the rear bumper and prior to that they had been using, Gyeon Wet Coat, Gyeon Bath+, CarPro Reload to wash & maintain their ceramic coated car that I did. Car went to the body shop and it was a disaster. They tried to paint the bumper at least 3 different times going above and beyond what they require the body shop to clean and decontaminate the body parts before painting so this issue does not happen. In the end a new rear bumper had to be ordered because it was a waste of time and paint & likely would of taken many more times to be able to use the contaminated bumper.
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  2. #2
    acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Bodyshop contamination RE: si02 Spray Sealants

    All I can speak to is that Iíve had SiO2 spray products on the front and rear bottom panels of my Q5 which was then brought to a body shop to remove scratches. Before bringing in, I polished the panel areas (to remove the LSP). The LSPs were not newly applied, but were likely still present based on beading and feel. I also gave them a heads up and they thanked me for polishing and said they would do their normal sanding before repainting the whole panel.

    The paint went on normal back in early November and I havenít seen any issues as of yet. Luckily, my experience has so far been better than the feedback you received.
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  3. #3
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Bodyshop contamination RE: si02 Spray Sealants

    Quote Originally Posted by BMWWW View Post
    Hi folks,

    First off, I love using si02 coatings for my personal vehicles due to the sheer amount of time I can cut off maintaining a fleet of toys.

    But with respect to bodyshop contaminants, can anyone speak more about si02 coatings and the potential "contamination" of body panels (painted or otherwise) and more importantly, a bodyshop`s "clean working environment" with (potential) silicone residue that is left behind when using a product with "spray and rinse" application?

    I read somewhere that these "spray and rinse application" products may become a bodyshop nightmare. Silicone for sure, but I`m not sure if si02 is the same thing.
    Assuming it is an issue, in the unfortunate event of requiring bodywork, what is the recommended "heads up" that should be communicated?

    Recent feedback that I read from a local forum:
    I grew up around the BodyShop, and later went through the Apprenticeship and Journeyman Painter levels in a couple of custom body and paint shops..
    In the zillions of vehicles through all these places, the ONLY time there would be an issue with "fisheyes", during/after a paint application would be because someone`s dirty greasy hand touched that spot -After- it was wiped down for the last time with the best Degreaser, and tack-cloth wiped down for the last time..

    What we don`t know about the experience this person says they had is - What kind of Shop did the work ?? A really good shop, or a strictly Earl Scheib production shop where they barely clean it, then rub steel wool all over the paint, barely tape it up correctly, spray a cheap primer/sealer, and then spray the cheapest, watered down paint they can get..

    If this is a really crowded Shop where there are a lot of vehicle in all stages of bodywork, maintenance, priming, even painting a panel or two, etc., there could also be a lot of cross contamination of things they are doing to themselves that could wreck the final paint.. A lot of stuff in flying in the -Air- anyway, so the more vehicles are in that area, the more ga ga is flying around them all..

    If the very people who sell these coatings, whatever they may be, tell you they can be removed when you machine polish the paintwork, why would anything they make the coating from be a problem in a reputable Body and Paint Shop ??

    In all the shops I have worked in, and been in picking up vehicles from them to Detail the Interiors, Engine compartments, etc., after the paintwork was done, I have -never- seen any of these shops have the issue this "shop" seemed to have..
    Dan F

  4. #4

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    Re: Bodyshop contamination RE: si02 Spray Sealants

    I dug back into the depths of my memory and found a few posts from a local painter below.
    To be clear, he ran one of the "better" bodyshops in the area, always posting tips for the local club, and his shop and booth are immaculate. He posts pictures of his booth on the regular to showcase the cleanliness of his shop as well.

    I drive a fleet of hoopties and don`t mind the issues with bodyshop since I`m unlikely to do paintwork. I would however steer friends and families with new cars from these "easy and lazy" products that I adore for the ability to apply an LSP (spray and rinse products) during the rinse stage.

    What I said was, most amateurs don`t know how to apply properly to minimize collateral contamination inside weather seals, trim, jambs, hinges, inside window regulators and glass etc - stuff where you cannot and will not be able to remove all of it, because a) it`s not accessible, and b) it`s transparent / invisible, so it`s impossible to know if you`ve removed it completely.
    If you sprayed this product onto the car and then wiped, instead of spraying the product away from the car onto a cloth, and THEN wiping onto the car - you`ve sprayed it in areas that aren`t accessible unless you take most of the car apart. Silicone needs to be mechanically removed, i.e. you must wipe it to remove it - chemicals alone won`t remove.
    Example: if you sprayed on the car, you got it on your glass. Then when you roll your window down, it spreads to the inside of your door. I can`t clean that 100%. So when it goes in the paint booth, the air circulates through everything, and picks up that silicone inside that I couldn`t clean - and that messes up the entire job that I`m doing at that moment - whether it`s a complete paint job or just a single panel - it won`t matter - the entire job will have issues.
    No professionally trained detailer ever ever sprays any product onto any surface of any vehicle. Interior or exterior. It`s one of the first things you learn. For many reasons, this is just one.
    Believe me. I`ve tried. I sprayed an entire car (it was disassembled) with 99% isopropyl alcohol to try and get around a severe contamination. Doors trunk glass hood engine everything was out. Still got millions of fisheye contamination pops due to silicone contamination.
    All of these companies, when I ask, acknowledge this will cause issues with paint work. But they don`t care. They just want to sell stuff.
    To me the trade off of seeing water beading on a car vs spending hundreds of additional $ to paint a single panel..... just doesn`t make sense to me. Want hydrophobic? Go get a ceramic coat done.
    Hey do what you wanna do. Just tell the truth when your painter asks. ��
    If you`d like to learn more just search for the keyword "silicone" within the club

    My recommendation: avoid any and all spray on hydrophobics. If you must see beading water on your car to be content with life, then please do it right and ceramic coat it. The cheaper spray on route is cheaper now, but can cost you thousands later. Trade off isn`t worth it.
    And please for the love of God if your painter asks about products on the car please tell him / her the truth, or it will cost them hundreds and hours of time to replace contaminated equipment.
    And to those who feel this is needed for paint maintenance: it`s not a Honda or Subaru or Kia - they use absolutely ```` clear as is self evident on any 8+ year old daily JDM. The same clear on your VW is the same clear on Aston, Koenigsegg, Pagani, Bentley, Porsche..... it has a half life of 10 years, all spectrum UV protection, anti fade, anti etch - etc all the bells and whistles. I`m telling you - absolutely nothing that you spray on is of any benefit to your clear coat whatsoever. Usually, it`s a detriment. Somehow, enthusiasts aren`t understanding this. Your German car doesn`t need anything but regular proper washes (2 bucket / microfibre everything / basic soap with no gloss additives).

    Those of you into ceramic coatings: a lot of *NEW* coatings coming out are silicone / polymer based.

    You want to avoid these at all costs. Or hope you never get a scratch or get into an accident. Because if you do, it`ll be next to impossible to achieve a clean paint finish.

    PSA.

    TO BE COMPLETELY CLEAR:

    I`m speaking of *NEW* coatings coming out to market very soon by sonax, Xpel, and a few others. Sonax was tested at Glasurit - definitely is heavy with silicone and causes massive problems with paint work. IVE WORKED ON CARS WITH OPTICOAT, CERAMICPRO, IGL & FEYNLAB WITHOUT ISSUE. It`s the NEW stuff that`s about to be released that`s the problem. Read first before spazzing!


    Most times - silicone contamination is invisible. There is no 100% way to get rid of it, or to even know that you completely got rid of it. No test or visual indicators.
    I`ve cleaned cars with special soaps, isopropyl alcohol, silicone and tar remover, silicone degreaser, specific products to remove silicone - 8 times, on the same car - AND I STILL GET FISHEYES EVERYWHERE.
    This is because: only a miniscule amount of silicone is needed to ```` up the entire job. And since you can`t get all of it, it`s impossible - it will always be an issue.
    Now say you are contaminated, and don`t tell the shop. Now all their tools are contaminated. Can`t clean them, for the same reasoning as stated above. And if you use them on other cars, then the problem will spread. So with no other choice, you end up buying Sanders, backing plates, sanding blocks, interface pads etc - which gets extremely costly. Hundreds each time.

  5. #5
    acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Bodyshop contamination RE: si02 Spray Sealants

    ^^Well, I guess Iím done detailing since the painter says Spray Sealants are a detriment and I donít know exactly which products contain silicone. It was fun while it lasted. Good luck to everyone in your endeavors.

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  6. #6

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    Re: Bodyshop contamination RE: si02 Spray Sealants

    Quote Originally Posted by acuRAS82 View Post
    ^^Well, I guess I’m done detailing since the painter says Spray Sealants are a detriment and I don’t know exactly which products contain silicone. It was fun while it lasted. Good luck to everyone in your endeavors.

    That wasn`t the aim nor goal of posting what "he" said.
    Hoping to see if anyone else has similar feedback with local painters RE: contamination from spray and rinse "hybrid ceramic" si02 sealants when applied as per the bottle in a "spray and rinse" fashion.

    Admittedly, I`m inquiring for feedback from a very small sample group:
    1. People that use sio2 as per the "spray and rinse" instructions
    2. People that have an unfortunate situation requiring body work
    3. People that have had a bad experience at the body shop due to contamination directly or through hearsay
    4. People that reach this thread on Autopia.org/forums

  7. #7

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    Re: Bodyshop contamination RE: si02 Spray Sealants

    I`d wondered about this one too...the guys I used (yeah..sigh, "used" as they`re all retiring/dying/going away ) sometimes had issues removing *conventional LSPs* that I use. I`ve heard lots of "I`ve been doing this for decades and I never had to work so hard to prep for painting!"

    I recall how Menzerna had once posted dire warnings about [stuff] getting into the paint and not coming out...

  8. #8
    acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Bodyshop contamination RE: si02 Spray Sealants

    Quote Originally Posted by BMWWW View Post
    That wasn`t the aim nor goal of posting what "he" said.
    Hoping to see if anyone else has similar feedback with local painters RE: contamination from spray and rinse "hybrid ceramic" si02 sealants when applied as per the bottle in a "spray and rinse" fashion.

    Admittedly, I`m inquiring for feedback from a very small sample group:
    1. People that use sio2 as per the "spray and rinse" instructions
    2. People that have an unfortunate situation requiring body work
    3. People that have had a bad experience at the body shop due to contamination directly or through hearsay
    4. People that reach this thread on Autopia.org/forums
    Sorry for being a smart-Alec. It’s more the way the person wrote than what the person actually wrote. A lot of certainties and demands versus suggestions. But I’m sure he’s dealt with some nightmares and I can understand his passion.

    My only feedback was in thread 2. No issues from my paint guy so far (2 vehicles, 3 full panels repainted and numberous touch ups).
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  9. #9
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Bodyshop contamination RE: si02 Spray Sealants

    Thanks for that post from a Painter..
    I am not totally sure how spraying some product containing silicone on glass and then when the window went down, it would somehow contaminate the inside of the door, and then somehow contaminate the door???? In perhaps almost all vehicles I have ever seen, there is a black strip guide of felt or something that both sides the glass rub on going down and coming up.. What about that??
    I have never seen or hear a glass window rubbing up against the inside of the door, and am pretty darn sure if glass rubs against anything metal down there it`s going to scratch the glass..

    Have never seen in any of the "Top" Shops I have worked in personally, dealt with personally, or visited, anyone using Isopropyl Anything.. There are far better products out there available for Paint Shops, even some that have evolved, that I used over 50 years ago..

    Yes, it can be pointed out that we didn`t have to deal with all these "sprays", etc., back then as today, I get it.. But I can say that we dealt with silicone, grease, oil, products, etc., back then as well, and somehow, we were able to remove them.

    Is it perhaps, the formula of silicone today is somehow the terrorist version of silicone and we are all now in for it if we use it ????
    Dan F

  10. #10

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    Re: Bodyshop contamination RE: si02 Spray Sealants

    This is America dammit! Through it in the trash and buy a new one....




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

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