Sonax Polymer vs Carnuba Waxes(single stg paint)

[Striker]

Sorta.

Just disappointed I can’t figure this out to work with two steps


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[Accumulator]

I haven`t used my rotaries since forever, and I`ve never used them with Menzerna, but speeds 1-2 sound awfully low to me for anything but finishing out.

[SWETM]

One thing with Menzerna is that you need to be working through it so it breaks down properly. With lower speed setting you can need to be doing a couple of passes more per sections or a really low armspeed. Otherwise the step to the finishing polish can be too large. In a perfect way you almost polish the medium polishes and compounds until they are clear and also just until they dries out. This that is left is almost nothing if you have the right amount of polish on the pad. Know this take some time to get used to. But if you don`t see it goes clear after 3-4 passes you can reload with one less drop of polish on the next section. If it goes clear too soon as after 1-2 passes you either have a to high of speed on the polisher or armspeed or too little of product on the pad. Cause if you overwork the polish your pad and residue creates more work for the next step. The cutting part is not so much of impact on. As long as you don`t goes over to the extreme in either case. So take a look at how the polish is behaving and you can often see the tell to what to adjust if necessary.

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[Striker]

Then perhaps I’m using way too much product on each pass because I have to grab a towel and clean the residue off!

My arm speed is low- I’d say real low. As to how many passes- I probably do 5-6 slow passes per section.

With slow arm speed


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[Accumulator]

SWETM- Heh heh, those "how-to" things that you gotta get right are part of why I`m not a Menzerna fan. And you`re absolutely right about the need to break their stuff down; that was, IMO, a factor in how/why the [individual] ruined my Jag with 3500 via rotary.

[Stokdgs]

Again, the key that has always worked for a lot of different products from even 50 years ago is to keep the pad and product moist enough to let you work long enough to break everything down..
Putting on a bunch of product in lieu of adding a little moisture, and blasting all down at high speeds to drying on the pad and paint is just to me, a disaster and all that powder is now gone into every crevice around the work..

Yes, back 50 years ago, the process was to use higher speeds than what I use today, and that was because all of us working in Shops had to absolutely turn out a bunch of vehicles every week..
But it was never the ideal in my opinion, and after getting out of that trade, and doing things in my garage/shop, I figured out a process where slower speeds with downward pressure, - especially with Menzerna on German paint, worked great..

It was slower, yes, but learning how to make the pad do all the work in its ability, and using just enough moisture, made for less steps afterwards.. These were the days of diminishing abrasive products, and later even with those non-diminishing products.. But in the end because I could do it all in perhaps no more than 2 steps, sometimes with 1 step, I actually spent less time, less product, less pads, getting the clarity and gloss at the highest level for the price point..

I studied Menzerna a long time, and decided that if anyone would go to the trouble to actually - mill - their own abrasives on site, and not just purchase them as everyone else did, they must be on to something here..
And all their work with Mercedes to allow the infamous Ceramic-Clear Black paintwork to be perfectly cleared of defects, told me these guys are not just out to make a quick buck, but must be committed to doing long term..

I use Menzerna for everything, every vehicle`s paintwork, and have been able to make it work just fine..
And the same goes for Meguiar`s M105/102/205 with even Lake Country Purple Foam Wool.

The key to unlocking the real potential of all these products will always be for me, keeping it all just moist enough to do the work, polish it, and clean it all up with the pad.. And yes, with slower speeds and downward pressure, this can be done with Rotary Power all day long..
Dan F

[Striker]

Well I just put my small collection of pads for a clean and waiting for them to dry.

Dan when you say keep it moist- are you suggesting just a couple of shots of water on the pad ?


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[Stokdgs]

SWETM- Heh heh, those "how-to" things that you gotta get right are part of why I`m not a Menzerna fan. And you`re absolutely right about the need to break their stuff down; that was, IMO, a factor in how/why the [individual] ruined my Jag with 3500 via rotary.

Mi Hermano !
I am so sorry to hear what happened to your Jaguar..
Believe the problem was the "individual" was not experienced enough.
I personally don`t know how anyone can damage paint with a product (Menzerna 3500) that has a Cut of 3 and a Gloss of 10, unless they are totally inexperienced with the process..
Dan F

[Stokdgs]

Well I just put my small collection of pads for a clean and waiting for them to dry.

Dan when you say keep it moist- are you suggesting just a couple of shots of water on the pad ?


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Striker,
In my experience, pads take around 24 hours or more to be dry depending on the ambient temp in the garage, etc.., unless they are very thin..
The first design Hydro-Techs were thick compared to the thinner model they sell today because they want to capture all those using random orbitals..
Forget about Rotary people, yeah, that`s it..

Yes, a little water in spray bottle to wet the entire pad, then go over the pad with your finger to make sure it`s even all the way around is what I do...
Then, put a little product on the pad, spread it all the way around.. Using it with this extra moisture also means you need less product..
Once you get this down for that paint, it will be just fine..

I started using Chemical Guys Pad Conditioner years ago because it was inexpensive and regardless of what it really is, it worked just fine and did not do anything bad to the pad, the product or the paintwork.. Autopia or Geek does not sell it.. It should be available at the C/G nutty website if you want to get some, someday..

The process is to allow the products, pad, paint to have a nicer day getting acquainted, and then the pad polishes with less or no downward pressure, and you have a beautiful spot with hardly any wipe up, and move to the next spot..
Dan F

[Striker]

So you’re saying wait the full 24 hours before attempting to use the pads?

One thing I noticed once I finish with my cyan+Menz 3500 is the finish looks flawless. Until I give the label an ISO wipe down and the tiny little imperfections come to surface!

I guess 3500 definitely has some fillers in it


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[Stokdgs]

So you’re saying wait the full 24 hours before attempting to use the pads?

One thing I noticed once I finish with my cyan+Menz 3500 is the finish looks flawless. Until I give the label an ISO wipe down and the tiny little imperfections come to surface!

I guess 3500 definitely has some fillers in it


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Striker,
Just check the pads, squeeze them and feel how wet they are.. they seem to dry from the outside in, so the middle will be wettest..
The thicker Hydro-Tech`s take longer to dry because, they are thicker than all the pads being sold today to work with all the Random Orbitals, which create so much heat, they break down thicker pads faster than thinner pads which seem to dissipate heat faster..

You want dry pads to do the work, but you of course can choose to do what you want..

Experiment with the wipe down, go a different direction from the "defects" to see if you are not introducing anything during the wipe down.. That`s what I would do..
Just to be sure of what I am going to do next, to eliminate those tiny things, or not, etc..
Dan F

[Striker]

I’ll try another pass with Menz 3500 and cyan pad and this time I’ll wipe with iso in a different direction just to see.


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[Accumulator]

...I personally don`t know how anyone can damage paint with a product (Menzerna 3500) that has a Cut of 3 and a Gloss of 10, unless they are totally inexperienced with the process..
Dan F

Note that the guy who [messed] up my Jag has been using Menzerna since forever, literally was running a rotary on priceless cars (e.g., Rolls Silver Ghost) long before I was even born. He just didn`t listen to me...decades of experience = he knows it all

When I tell somebody specifically, in detail, how to do his job, I`m not wrong. I`d been babying the area in question since the late `80s and knew what I was talking about.

Striker- Sorry to rant all over your thread

[Striker]

All good buddy! This is what this is all about.

I’m gonna go and try to fix my mistakes later today.


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[Accumulator]

Striker- Thanks.

Are you having any issues with the oils and the ss paint? The oils in Po106FF drove me nuts (the ones in the SRC-polish they made for BF weren`t much better) and that was on b/c! A ss like my Jag`s would really soak up those oils, and I`d expect even more trouble. Those oils were worse than the ones in M205!