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  1. #16

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    Sometimes. And when we get them they pound the roof like golf balls and put dents in the wife’s car. Oh yeah I found out I’m allergic to pecan tree pollen. Ouch.
    Oh...I guess no pecan trees for me.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4regt4 View Post
    I forgot to mention: I have some Zaino products laying around, and I applied AOI, Z5, and ZCS to the GMC...
    I really like the ZAIO, it`s what I usually use as prep for the FK1000P.

    I would never expect Zaino LSPs to rival FK1000P when it comes to protection or durability. Zaino`s LSPs are notorious in some circlesd for allowing contamination to etch/etc., so much so that I`ve never even considered using it (though I wouldn`t use it on most colors anyhow just because of its look).
    Does the FK1000P need to be re-applied frequently?


    Not as frequently as most other conventional LSPs, at least not in my experience and that of maybe 95% of the people here who`ve tried it (I can think of two, maybe three, Autopians who get better durability/protection from Collinite waxes, which are what I used prior to discovering the FK and comparing the two on my vehicles).

    Using a really potent shampoo/etc. to clean the sap off will kill any conventional LSP rather quickly. So if the prep/application isn`t a problem (or if you pay to have a Pro do it, which I recommend), a *GOOD* coating would probably be best for your particular situation. But that`s a lot of "if"s and switching to a different wax is cheap and easy.

    And, if you`ll forgive me for stating the obvious, beware of unsubstantiated Internet claims, few things bring out the [unreliable Detailing "info" ] quite like this kind of topic. "Have you cleaned this kind of sap off of that LSP without any issues?" oughta be the ground floor IMO.

  3. #18

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    I really like the ZAIO, it`s what I usually use as prep for the FK1000P.

    I would never expect Zaino LSPs to rival FK1000P when it comes to protection or durability. Zaino`s LSPs are notorious in some circlesd for allowing contamination to etch/etc., so much so that I`ve never even considered using it (though I wouldn`t use it on most colors anyhow just because of its look).


    Not as frequently as most other conventional LSPs, at least not in my experience and that of maybe 95% of the people here who`ve tried it (I can think of two, maybe three, Autopians who get better durability/protection from Collinite waxes, which are what I used prior to discovering the FK and comparing the two on my vehicles).

    [/COLOR]Using a really potent shampoo/etc. to clean the sap off will kill any conventional LSP rather quickly. So if the prep/application isn`t a problem (or if you pay to have a Pro do it, which I recommend), a *GOOD* coating would probably be best for your particular situation. But that`s a lot of "if"s and switching to a different wax is cheap and easy.

    And, if you`ll forgive me for stating the obvious, beware of unsubstantiated Internet claims, few things bring out the [unreliable Detailing "info" ] quite like this kind of topic. "Have you cleaned this kind of sap off of that LSP without any issues?" oughta be the ground floor IMO.
    Thanks bunches. This is the kind of info I really need. Sounds like FK1000P is in my near future.

    I`ll use up the Zaino products on the garage queen, it doesn`t get exposed to sap, etc. I`ve layered it on thick, and I like the appearance on my dark charcoal (technically "Grigio Granito") car. But I`m going to experiment on the daily drivers.

    As far as car soap, it`s been Zaino again, specifically Z7. On my treated cars, it seems to work OK on the tree sap. MUCH better than IUDJ no rinse. The concentration used for no rinse doesn`t seem strong enough to cut it. Haven`t try Optimum for this, though.

    Is Z7 known to be harsh on the various LSP`s?

    References are made to "coatings". I`m a bit confused by the difference between coatings and sealers. I thought they were the same. Are coatings the silicate (SiO2??) (i.e. glass) treatments? Any good DIY ones to try?

    Again, you guys have been very helpful in shortening my learning curve.

    Hans.

  4. #19
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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Most coatings do contain some sort of SiO2 chemistry in them providing hardness and durability. There are many good consumer coatings available and if you can apply a sealant you can apply a coating. Just watch a few YouTube videos and search here for reviews of coatings before applying or buying. The prep of the vehicles surface is the hardest part of the coating process. You want the surface to be as free of scratches as possible as a coating will magnify most defects. Choose a coating sold here and you really can’t go wrong though there are coatings sold elsewhere that are just as good or maybe better. Just follow the instructions, make sure you have good lighting, and beware of the dreaded “high spots” and you will do fine.

  5. #20

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Would try Jescar power lock plus and or Sonax Polymer Net Shield.

    Pledge will work on your paint temporarily but it’s not really made to protect from the elements like UV and other things vehicles see. It can also be streaky on paint

    Car cover or portable shade unit is the best option. A bit more work each time but would actually have a physical barrier


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  6. #21

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4regt4 View Post
    Thanks bunches. This is the kind of info I really need. Sounds like FK1000P is in my near future.
    I`d be interested in your feedback, whether pro/con.

    I`ll use up the Zaino products on the garage queen, it doesn`t get exposed to sap, etc. I`ve layered it on thick, and I like the appearance on my dark charcoal (technically "Grigio Granito") car. But I`m going to experiment on the daily drivers.
    You might like the look of the FK just as well. I ended up liking it on a color *very* similar to that even though I didn`t expect to.

    As far as car soap, it`s been Zaino again, specifically Z7. On my treated cars, it seems to work OK on the tree sap. MUCH better than IUDJ no rinse. The concentration used for no rinse doesn`t seem strong enough to cut it. Haven`t try Optimum for this..Is Z7 known to be harsh on the various LSP`s?
    I`ve never tried Z7, preferring a 50:50 mix of 3D Pink Car Soap : Griot`s Car Wash.

    I simply *LOVE* IUDJ...but only as a Drying Aid and/or Quick Detailer. I *GREATLY* prefer it to Optimum No Rinse, which I`m using up on household stuff.

    If a shampoo compromises FK1000P then I`d reserve said shampoo for things like wheels/wells/undercarriage. Good shampoos have very little effect on decent LSPs.

    Coatings: I find it tricky to ensure a proper application with no high spots. Note that I`m not the dullest knife in any drawer I don`t mind waxing every now and then,so redoing a bit more frequently isn`t a problem *for me*. And I do spot-correction if a vehicle gets marred, which can be a big deal with coatings since you can`t just redo a small area as easily. The coatings I`ve used on my wheels did last longer than the FK1000P though, by quite a bit. Might be perfect for you...but I`d still pay a Pro instead of DIYing it.

    Pledge- I wouldn`t/don`t use that on furniture or anything else. Consider what`s in it/how it works...zero reason to use it IMO as there are countless other products that do the same things at least as well without leaving a film that retains contamination and looks awful (might not noticed *how* awful until you do the wood furniture with something good ).

  7. #22

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    I`d be interested in your feedback, whether pro/con.



    You might like the look of the FK just as well. I ended up liking it on a color *very* similar to that even though I didn`t expect to.



    I`ve never tried Z7, preferring a 50:50 mix of 3D Pink Car Soap : Griot`s Car Wash.

    I simply *LOVE* IUDJ...but only as a Drying Aid and/or Quick Detailer. I *GREATLY* prefer it to Optimum No Rinse, which I`m using up on household stuff.

    If a shampoo compromises FK1000P then I`d reserve said shampoo for things like wheels/wells/undercarriage. Good shampoos have very little effect on decent LSPs.

    Coatings: I find it tricky to ensure a proper application with no high spots. Note that I`m not the dullest knife in any drawer I don`t mind waxing every now and then,so redoing a bit more frequently isn`t a problem *for me*. And I do spot-correction if a vehicle gets marred, which can be a big deal with coatings since you can`t just redo a small area as easily. The coatings I`ve used on my wheels did last longer than the FK1000P though, by quite a bit. Might be perfect for you...but I`d still pay a Pro instead of DIYing it.

    Pledge- I wouldn`t/don`t use that on furniture or anything else. Consider what`s in it/how it works...zero reason to use it IMO as there are countless other products that do the same things at least as well without leaving a film that retains contamination and looks awful (might not noticed *how* awful until you do the wood furniture with something good ).

    First of all, I mentioned Lemon Pledge as "tongue-in-cheek". Wouldn`t consider using it at all, but it is surprisingly effective at protecting race cars from molten rubber. Has to be applied several times per day. Car detailers refer to "6 footers" as a quasi-acceptable finish, Lemon Pledge only has to look good from the grandstands. Which it does.

    My "garage queen" wasn`t much of a garage queen last month. I used it for a 4 week 7000 mile trip. Got covered in mud, rain, and god knows what else. And too many rock chips to count, which I`m attempting to fix now. Amazing at what a dirt clod at triple digit speeds can do. The factory paint is PPG, which seems to be pretty tough. But bringing the car back up to snuff will be a winter project.

    I admit to being skeptical regarding the labeling of products. I mean, it appears that we just have to trust suppliers as to what their products are. Some of these companies are quite small. Suppose a down-and-out wax maker decides to relabel his wax as a sealant? How would we know? Is there a legitimate test of some sort?

    Of course, that is one of the functions of a forum such as this, to attempt to police the claims of vendors. "Hey, Acme sealant only lasts as long as their old wax. And that is not what it used to be before the Road Runner fell off the cliff." (I hope you are old enough to get that reference.)

    So.... Is there a formal definition delineating coatings from sealants from wax (carnuba or polymer)?

    FK1000P is intriguing. I`ll order in the next few days.

    Meanwhile, I just washed the Volt that was coated with Finish First and Zaino CS. Used Z7 soap, ordinary concentration, method, etc. Came out very clean and slick. No tree sap, although for the last month or two this has not been a big issue. Car had not been washed at all in 2 months.

    GMC Acadia is filthy, I`m procrastinating. Wife`s car. It is so stupid large that I need a ladder for the top. No rinse IUDJ, etc. is impractical. Just use a hose and a saturated mitt. Hope for the best. I hate this car. Nearly impossible to dry, either with towels or leaf blower. What a turd.

    Hans.

  8. #23
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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    4regt4 you are catching on pretty quick. Manufacturers can claim anything and get away with it. Meguires is a big offender. They put “wax” on everything when it does not contain any real wax at all (this includes a brand new product similar to Hydro2). Detailers have to rely on each other to pass critical information on to each other. Detailing supplies are costly and no one wants to buy every product to find the best available, so we just read the manufacturers hype and hope for the best. We normally cut the manufacturers claims in half. If they say something lasts 6 months it will last 3 months, maybe. There needs to be a Consumer Reports for detailers. The YouTube channel with the Forensic Detailer comes the closest to someone who will say a product is b.s. and we need more independent reviewers to keep manufacturers honest.
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  9. #24

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    4regt4 you are catching on pretty quick. Manufacturers can claim anything and get away with it. Meguires is a big offender..
    Oh man...get me going on that one! I felt sorry for [a prominent former Meguiar`s employee] who had to say something in their defense when I went off about their use of certain words.

    .. and when somebody tried that (the Wax Report, the results got slammed something awful, not entirely without reason...

  10. #25

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4regt4 View Post
    First of all, I mentioned Lemon Pledge as "tongue-in-cheek"..
    OK, copy that, thanks for saying so. It wouldn`t have been the first time somebody tried to post about it being a decent solution!


    Amazing at what a dirt clod at triple digit speeds can do...
    Yes indeed, the last time that happened to me it blew half the front bumpercover off my wife`s A8, hit it just like a cannonball. Had to isolate some wiring before continuing so I could turn on the lights when needed without shorting things out.

    The factory paint is PPG, which seems to be pretty tough. But bringing the car ..back up to snuff will be a winter project.
    PPG makes lots of different paints...I`m OK with some of `em but generally prefer Spies Hecker. Eh, I`m spoiled by all the Audis.

    Touching up chips is another very involved topic that`s not nearly as straightforward as one might think despite being basically "clean out the chips and fill them with paint".

    I admit to being skeptical regarding the labeling of products. I mean, it appears that we just have to trust suppliers as to what their products are. Some of these companies are quite small. Suppose a down-and-out wax maker decides to relabel his wax as a sealant? How would we know? Is there a legitimate test of some sort?
    Some reputable manufacturers have their products tested under properly controlled conditions by credible entitie. I.e., using LSPs on fresh repaints can be problematic, don`t want to interfere with the outgassing/curing of the new paint; Optimum Car Wax was extensively tested by Ford, who proclaimed it suitable for use on "post-production paintwork". Some Automotive International/ValuGard (yeah..SIC) products are approved by virtually all the major automakers. And when a majority of people here agree about something, that`s usually pretty reliable.

    Of course, that is one of the functions of a forum such as this, to attempt to police the claims of vendors. "Hey, Acme sealant only lasts as long as their old wax. And that is not what it used to be before the Road Runner fell off the cliff." (I hope you are old enough to get that reference.)

    So.... Is there a formal definition delineating coatings from sealants from wax (carnuba or polymer)?
    Used to be that "wax" meant something primarily natural- carnauba, paraffin, etc. But these days words like "wax" get used in utterly inconsistent ways. FK1000P is a 100% synthetic product yet it`s called a "wax" because that`s what Floyd Meguiar decided to call it and you didn`t argue with Floyd or you became an ex-employee.
    FK1000P is intriguing. I`ll order in the next few days.
    I`m confident you`ll find it satisfactory.
    Meanwhile, I just washed the Volt that was coated with Finish First and Zaino CS. Used Z7 soap, ordinary concentration, method, etc. Came out very clean and slick. No tree sap, although for the last month or two this has not been a big issue. Car had not been washed at all in 2 months.
    Doesn`t it figure that the smallest, least consequential, car is the one that cleans up easily?!? At least that one`s checked off the list.

    GMC Acadia is filthy, I`m procrastinating. Wife`s car. It is so stupid large that I need a ladder for the top. No rinse IUDJ, etc. is impractical. Just use a hose and a saturated mitt. Hope for the best. I hate this car. Nearly impossible to dry, either with towels or leaf blower. What a turd..
    Heh heh, I switched *to* a Tahoe to get something *smaller* for the dogs so you get limited sympathy Re the size of an Arcadia Sorry, couldn`t resist...And yeah, I keep the (entire) Tahoe just as nice as my Garage Queens But hey, I have to since they`re not building that version of it any more and I hate the newer ones.

    But seriously, you oughta get some good work platforms so you can wash such things safely. Gee...I use five of `em when I do the Tahoe, *NOT* gonna fall and change my life. I forget what they cost (and it was a bundle), but compared to paralysis? Money well-spent; my best friend will never quite be the same after a "little fall", but at least she`s not in a wheelchair for life like a guy I know who "sure never expected to fall like that".

  11. #26

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Hi. Me again. I`m resurrecting an older thread, mostly for context. To review, we have issues with a microscopic tree sap fog that turns car paint into what feels like sandpaper.

    I got some FK1000. Weather conditions were not great at the time to properly wash and prep the car, but I decided to do a test on the hood of our dark red metallic GMC. It was humid, cloudy, and about 50deg. (That`s "F", not "C"). The hood had some spots of microscopic tree sap and some pitting, so I washed with Dawn and used a clay bar and isopropanol for the stubborn spots. I divided the hood vertically into thirds. The left and right thirds got Zaino AIO. After sitting overnight, the left got Z2, the right FK1000. The center I left without anything. Then for giggles, I coated the entire lower half of the hood with Zaino CS, including the center part that had no other treatment. So essentially the hood was now divided into 6 parts. After a few days, I gave the hood a quick wash. Left and right beaded up nicely, but the lower ZCS section sort of "sheeted". ie. It didn`t really bead, but the water kind of slid off.

    3 months of winter weather and a couple of washings (Zaino Z7) later......

    The left (Z2) still beaded as before. But the FK1000 was now not beading so well, and some of it was more like sheeting. The lower half (ZCS) was still sheeting. The water wasn`t really sliding off, it just sort of sat there in one consistent sheet.

    I was a bit disappointed in the FK1000, but to be fair, it could have not adhered or cured well under the conditions. I put it on kind of thick, let it sit for nearly 2 hours (trying to give it a chance to cure because of temp) before buffing. It seemed to buff out reasonably easily.

    So... After 3 months, I just did a thorough wash and applied FK1000 all over. 60 deg day, partly cloudy. Not sure how thick to apply FK1000, so I did sparingly in some areas, thicker in others. This time, I had difficulty getting it to buff out. The haze didn`t want to "break", for lack of a better term. No ZCS this time.

    We`ll wait and see. It looks great, except up close where you can see the tiny deep pits from prior exposure to the tree sap. But as a 6 footer, it`s fine.

    Hans.
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  12. #27
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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Thin is better than thick. Thicker just makes it harder to wipe off without any real benefits.

  13. #28

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    4regt4- As a big fan/advocate of FK1000P, who typically uses it over ZAIO, I found your post very interesting! Especially that it seemed to get compromised quicker than the Z2.

    I don`t know whether the temp factored in or not, I`ve never applied it in such chilly conditions.

    I do find that more than one coat lasts a lot longer, enough so that it`s definitely worth doing IMO.

    As noted, thin *thin* *THIN*. If a tin doesn`t last over a decade on something Suburban-size you`re using *way* too much. I try to think of it as bonding at the molecular level, and if I can clearly see it on my paint I figure I used (a bit) too much. Your difficulty in buffing it off sounds like *WAY* too much to me, but as long as you got it all off there shouldn`t be any problems.

    Just don`t do it that thick if/when applying additional coats or you could precipitate solvent action that can result in (really hard to fix) pseudo-holograms. Try to be very gentle about any layering (which I`d absolutely still do, like...after each of the next two washes- in warmer weather though).

    Letting it sit for hours (or even overnight) has never caused problems for me.

    I`ll spare you my opinions on washing with Dawn (which I don`t hate the way some do) and using IPA for tree sap...hey, whatever works for you is fine with me. I just wish the FK had held up better so you wouldn`t have to redo it already!

  14. #29

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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Thanks Accumulator.

    I`ll apply a second coat. Thin.....

    As for the Dawn and IPA (around these parts, that`s a beer...), I was looking to go harsh as I had some tough issues to deal with. Normally I don`t use them. And shouldn`t have to going forward (I hope).

    I royally brain farted in not taking a pic after squirting the hood with water before stripping it. Water, beading, etc. really show up on the dark red. I did a similar experiment (but not with FK1000) on my Volt, but being white it would have been difficult to photograph. Oh well.

    I was going to put Zaino CS over the FK1000 (I`m not really sure why...), but I think I`ll refrain.

    Hans.

  15. #30
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    Re: Protection against tree sap mist?

    Last year I did a hood with 4 different combinations of coatings. The car gets parked under a pine tree and I wopuld guess what contaminants that show on the hood is tree sap. The one section that washed completely clean was done with Syncro. The PS front was MOHS+Booster, DS front was CSL+Gliss and the DS rear section was CSL+Exov3. It was no contest that the Syncro (MOHS+Skin) was far superior to the others. This was done mid/late July and the car was coated in Feb.\



    Also here is a picture on my Buick that had been parked under the same tree for almost a year. I am sure the contaminates showing are also tree sap and of all the products I tried the only one that had any affect was McKee`s 37 Tire & Rubber Rejuvenator.

    What really surprised me was what didn`t work.
    3M adhesive remover
    GTechniq W7 Tar and Glue Remover
    Stoners tarminator
    Bug Squash
    a few different APC`s
    Tuff Shine tire cleaner


 

 
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