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  1. #16

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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    And that is what makes the world go round and round.

  2. #17

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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwyfk View Post
    Thank you for all the replies, I appreciate it. It would be difficult to reply to all of you individually, but for those that don`t like ceramic coatings, what was it that you didn`t like? I understand that it`s not as easy to use. Another thing I saw on a Youtube video last night is that it CAN have water spot problems, which is something that surprised me.

    If I do this, I`m going to have it done by a detailer, because I don`t want to go trough the trial and error process on a brand new car myself. The two shops locally use different products with different pricing structures. One shop uses Pinnacle Black Label Diamond surface coating, charges only $300 for a new car treatment on interior and exterior. The claim is that this coating will last 3 years. I`m sure there`s prep work involved, but not much correction is needed on a brand new car, which is why I`m sure the price is reasonable.

    The other shop has 3 tier pricing and uses this company, which only seems to sell to authorized dealers:

    https://www.opticoat.com/
    https://optimumcarcare.com/

    (I think they`re the same company? They told me the 1 year product was Gloss Coat, but I could only find that on this website)

    The 1 year coating (Optimum Gloss Coat) is $399, then 5 year (Opti Coat Pro) is $799 and 7 year (Opti Coat Pro+) is $1199. I can only afford the 1 year right now, but when I spoke to them on the phone, it sounds like the buffing and prep work involved is quite extensive to ensure the paint is perfect.

    Given these two choices (Opti/Optimum or Pinnacle), which would you prefer at the $300-$400 price range?
    I highly doubt the black label diamond is lasting 3 years for a car that is driven routinely... So I`d rule them out immediately.

    I`ve applied about 10 different coatings so far. It isn`t the application that is difficult, it is the prep work. I understand why these guys charge so much because it is time and labor intensive. Not to mention they have shops, rent, marketing, employees, insurance, product, etc and oh yeah need to make some sort of profit.

    I just applied Gyeon Synchro to a friends new c43 amg, I get tons of people I work with coming to me asking me for help applying coatings after they see my car. It stays cleaner longer, and has a nice candy glass look to it. His car was in very good shape, started at 9AM with a thorough wash, we finished around 6pm. That is two people working on the car, washing, iron x, wash again, clay bar, applying gyeon prep, first layer of coating, second layer of coating, and third layer of coating. Add another 2 hours if we wanted to polish it (but I didn`t think it needed it).
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  3. #18
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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    The Pinnacle Black Label is a good product but 3 years is impossible without topping it with an SIO2 product on a regular basis. I actually got 18 months out of it without using anything to top it. But at 18 months it was gone in some spots, and I mean worn off. $300 is not a bad price as the major work is in the correction phase. A child could apply PBL with success. You can get 4-5 cars done out of one bottle.

    All coatings need to be maintained. I’m not going to go into what is necessary to maintain a coating as there are numerous posts here on the subject, but it needs to be mentioned in any post where a person might be planning to spend good money on a coating install. A coating is not an apply and forget thing.
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  4. #19
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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwyfk View Post
    Thank you for all the replies, I appreciate it. It would be difficult to reply to all of you individually, but for those that don`t like ceramic coatings, what was it that you didn`t like? I understand that it`s not as easy to use. Another thing I saw on a Youtube video last night is that it CAN have water spot problems, which is something that surprised me.

    If I do this, I`m going to have it done by a detailer, because I don`t want to go trough the trial and error process on a brand new car myself. The two shops locally use different products with different pricing structures. One shop uses Pinnacle Black Label Diamond surface coating, charges only $300 for a new car treatment on interior and exterior. The claim is that this coating will last 3 years. I`m sure there`s prep work involved, but not much correction is needed on a brand new car, which is why I`m sure the price is reasonable.

    The other shop has 3 tier pricing and uses this company, which only seems to sell to authorized dealers:

    https://www.opticoat.com/
    https://optimumcarcare.com/

    (I think they`re the same company? They told me the 1 year product was Gloss Coat, but I could only find that on this website)

    The 1 year coating (Optimum Gloss Coat) is $399, then 5 year (Opti Coat Pro) is $799 and 7 year (Opti Coat Pro+) is $1199. I can only afford the 1 year right now, but when I spoke to them on the phone, it sounds like the buffing and prep work involved is quite extensive to ensure the paint is perfect.

    Given these two choices (Opti/Optimum or Pinnacle), which would you prefer at the $300-$400 price range?
    Don`t let those that say coatings are hard to use detract you from using them. They are not hard to use. In general they are all about the same in terms of application.

    I think Pinnacle Black Label is a good entry level coating. Autogeek does claim it lasts 3 years. When I was sent a bottle for review I did see 2 years out of it with the occasional use of the booster. Keep in mind we are talking about Southern California weather conditions. Some have mentioned that it is not that durable in harsher conditions. You will realistically get a year out of it. But I will say that it did outperform Gloss Coat.

    Optimum is the brains behind Gloss Coat and Opti Coat. I was underwhelmed by Gloss Coat. Optimum claims it is a 3 year coating and they guarantee 2 years. In reality 1 year max is about right. So this detailer that has it at 1 year is spot on. It starts to exhibit issues before getting to 1 year. I will say that Gloss Coat is one of the easiest coatings to apply and it`s initial performance is good. It would be fair to say this is why Optimum developed their coating maintenance line which has a booster in it by the name of hyper seal. At least that is my personal thought even with all the claims that optimum coatings don`t need a booster.

    In most cases the paint is going to need a good polishing 1-2 years down the road as the coating becomes contaminated.

    If you go with one of the Opti Coat coatings be sure to read the warranty thoroughly and understand what is covered. Gloss Coat does not come with a warranty.

    Tough call on these two choices but I would not choose either one based on the performance I have seen with both. But I if I had to absolutely pick one then Optimum.
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  5. #20

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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    I`d kinda kneejerk towards the shop using Optimum, though I probably have more Pinnacle products on my own shelves. If nothing else, the cost at the other shop just seems too good to be true to me. IF they quoted that without seeing the car, I`d run away to the Optimum user.
    It wasn`t a quote, it was just what`s written on his website for a new car treatment. If the car isn`t brand new, the cost goes up.

    Quote Originally Posted by scharnhorst310 View Post
    ...started at 9AM with a thorough wash, we finished around 6pm. That is two people working on the car, washing, iron x, wash again, clay bar, applying gyeon prep, first layer of coating, second layer of coating, and third layer of coating. Add another 2 hours if we wanted to polish it (but I didn`t think it needed it).
    This is exactly why it would be extremely difficult for me to accomplish this myself without taking vacation time and paying extra for visits to the chiropractor!

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    All coatings need to be maintained. I’m not going to go into what is necessary to maintain a coating as there are numerous posts here on the subject, but it needs to be mentioned in any post where a person might be planning to spend good money on a coating install. A coating is not an apply and forget thing.
    I`m absolutely eager to do what it takes to maintain the coating. I either like to do things perfectly or not at all. I used to love detailing my old car, but partly due to the fact that the car was parked outside when new, nothing I did would protect the paint from contamination. It was depressing to see the car get worse over time, so I gave up with the waxing and just kept it clean. Hopefully, this coating will give me a fighting chance to keep my paint in good condition with the nasty weather and nuclear fallout we get around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Guz View Post
    But I will say that it did outperform Gloss Coat.

    ...which has a booster in it by the name of hyper seal. At least that is my personal thought even with all the claims that optimum coatings don`t need a booster.

    In most cases the paint is going to need a good polishing 1-2 years down the road as the coating becomes contaminated.

    if I had to absolutely pick one then Optimum.
    Thank you for the post and mentioning hyper seal. I`ll look into that. If Pinnacle outperformed Gloss Coat, why would you recommend Gloss Coat out of the two choices? Also, since I just got a brand new car, I can`t afford to spend over $1000, in addition to Xpel (that I really want) right now. So, this is just something I want to do the job for a year or so anyway, until I can get something better. As long as it looks good and protects the paint, that`s fine. If there are things I can do to enhance the durability of the product, like hyper seal or even a coating of wax or sealant, I`ll do it.

    I`ve decided to go with the $399 coating. It sounds like they know what they`re doing and they`ve been around for a while. The other guy may do good work, but I haven`t had much luck with him the past couple of years. He`s really difficult to get in touch with.

    I actually have a paint chip that I need to deal with and allow enough time to dry before making an appointment. The car is a hatchback and on the first day I got it, after I had pulled it into the garage, I didn`t notice until I closed the hatch that it had hit the garage door hinge. I ordered Dr. Colorchip, so we`ll see how that goes.

  6. #21
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwyfk View Post

    Thank you for the post and mentioning hyper seal. I`ll look into that. If Pinnacle outperformed Gloss Coat, why would you recommend Gloss Coat out of the two choices? Also, since I just got a brand new car, I can`t afford to spend over $1000, in addition to Xpel (that I really want) right now. So, this is just something I want to do the job for a year or so anyway, until I can get something better. As long as it looks good and protects the paint, that`s fine. If there are things I can do to enhance the durability of the product, like hyper seal or even a coating of wax or sealant, I`ll do it.

    I`ve decided to go with the $399 coating. It sounds like they know what they`re doing and they`ve been around for a while. The other guy may do good work, but I haven`t had much luck with him the past couple of years. He`s really difficult to get in touch with.

    I actually have a paint chip that I need to deal with and allow enough time to dry before making an appointment. The car is a hatchback and on the first day I got it, after I had pulled it into the garage, I didn`t notice until I closed the hatch that it had hit the garage door hinge. I ordered Dr. Colorchip, so we`ll see how that goes.
    Knowing what I know now I would not go with either. Yes PBL did outperform Gloss Coat but it is really a flip of the coin on this one. Either one will net you the 1 year you are looking for. One thing that I did like about Gloss Coat is it`s ability on how it handled bird droppings. If it is caught early enough and doesn`t sit on the coating for too long then it can go away after a couple days just by sitting in the sun.

    It also sounds like you narrowed down your choice in having the detailer that is easier to get in touch with to do the work.

    The other option is just using a sealant or one of the various silica spray sealants as a form of protection.
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  7. #22

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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwyfk View Post
    I ordered Dr. Colorchip, so we`ll see how that goes.
    FWIW, I get *MUCH* better results with that if I use it like regular touchup paint instead of doing their "smear" method. Be careful you don`t mar up the surrounding paint; it`s hard to fix that since the DrColorchip paint will be a lot more fragile than the surrounding oe finish.
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  8. #23

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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Guz View Post
    If it is caught early enough and doesn`t sit on the coating for too long then it can go away after a couple days just by sitting in the sun.
    What do you mean by this? How does bird poop residue bake off in the sun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    FWIW, I get *MUCH* better results with that if I use it like regular touchup paint instead of doing their "smear" method. Be careful you don`t mar up the surrounding paint; it`s hard to fix that since the DrColorchip paint will be a lot more fragile than the surrounding oe finish.
    So, you just dab the chip, let it dry, then use the solution to remove the excess without using any kind of squeegee? I plan to tape off the surrounding area. I`ll be careful, but I wasn`t aware that I could mar the paint surface by using what they include in the kit.

  9. #24
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwyfk View Post
    What do you mean by this? How does bird poop residue bake off in the sun?



    So, you just dab the chip, let it dry, then use the solution to remove the excess without using any kind of squeegee? I plan to tape off the surrounding area. I`ll be careful, but I wasn`t aware that I could mar the paint surface by using what they include in the kit.
    Be careful about taping off the surrounding area; if you mean you are taping exactly around the chipped area, and you fill in the chip, it might leave a line around the chip when you pull the tape off..
    I have used Dr.Colorchip many times years ago and cannot understand how it apparently, got so hard to use...
    All I have ever done with it is - 1st clean out the area carefully that is missing the paint, clean the surround area.. I think the first time I ever used this product 16 years ago, the only thing that Detailers used with Isopropyl Alcohol , which is what I used to clean the chipped area and the surrounding area..
    Then I shook the heck out of the little bottle of paint.
    Took my camelhair sword brush, dipped it in lacquer thinner to get it wet, shook it out away from the car, dipped it into the paint bottle and applied that drop to the chip..
    Waited the amount of time the directions said, took the other bootle of what looks like thinned down paint, and a microfiber cloth and carefully wiped that wet microfiber over the chip, keeping it flat and not digging into the paint chip.
    The paint chip was flat and now very shiny, and stayed that way for years.. Sold the car and it was doing fine years later..

    In the case of many chips like in road rash on the leading edge of the hood, same thing, get all the chips painted, wait, wipe everything off with the other bottle product.
    It cleans up any paint boo-boos, etc., that might be in between the chips, all the chips are flat and shiny, all done !
    Anyway, thats my experiences with Dr.Colorchip products..
    Dan F
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  10. #25
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwyfk View Post
    What do you mean by this? How does bird poop residue bake off in the sun?



    So, you just dab the chip, let it dry, then use the solution to remove the excess without using any kind of squeegee? I plan to tape off the surrounding area. I`ll be careful, but I wasn`t aware that I could mar the paint surface by using what they include in the kit.
    Be careful about taping off the surrounding area; if you mean you are taping exactly around the chipped area, and you fill in the chip, it might leave a line around the chip when you pull the tape off..
    I have used Dr.Colorchip many times years ago and cannot understand how it apparently, got so hard to use...
    All I have ever done with it is - 1st clean out the area carefully that is missing the paint, clean the surrounding area.. I think the first time I ever used this product 16 years ago, the only thing that we used to clean paintwork was Isopropyl Alcohol , which is what I used to clean the chipped area and the surrounding area..
    Then I shook the heck out of the little bottle of paint.
    Took my camelhair sword brush, dipped it in lacquer thinner to get it wet, shook it out away from the car, dipped it into the paint bottle and applied that drop to the chip..
    Waited the amount of time the directions said, took the other bootle of what looks like thinned down paint, and a microfiber cloth and carefully wiped that wet microfiber over the chip, keeping it flat and not digging into the paint chip.
    The paint chip was flat and now very shiny, and stayed that way for years.. Sold the car and it was doing fine years later..

    In the case of many chips like in road rash on the leading edge of the hood, same thing, get all the chips painted, wait, wipe everything off with the other bottle product.
    It cleans up any paint boo-boos, etc., that might be in between the chips, all the chips are flat and shiny, all done !
    Anyway, thats my experiences with Dr.Colorchip products..
    Dan F
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  11. #26

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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    Be careful about taping off the surrounding area; if you mean you are taping exactly around the chipped area, and you fill in the chip, it might leave a line around the chip when you pull the tape off..
    I have used Dr.Colorchip many times years ago and cannot understand how it apparently, got so hard to use...
    All I have ever done with it is - 1st clean out the area carefully that is missing the paint, clean the surround area.. I think the first time I ever used this product 16 years ago, the only thing that Detailers used with Isopropyl Alcohol , which is what I used to clean the chipped area and the surrounding area..
    Then I shook the heck out of the little bottle of paint.
    Took my camelhair sword brush, dipped it in lacquer thinner to get it wet, shook it out away from the car, dipped it into the paint bottle and applied that drop to the chip..
    Waited the amount of time the directions said, took the other bootle of what looks like thinned down paint, and a microfiber cloth and carefully wiped that wet microfiber over the chip, keeping it flat and not digging into the paint chip.
    The paint chip was flat and now very shiny, and stayed that way for years.. Sold the car and it was doing fine years later..

    In the case of many chips like in road rash on the leading edge of the hood, same thing, get all the chips painted, wait, wipe everything off with the other bottle product.
    It cleans up any paint boo-boos, etc., that might be in between the chips, all the chips are flat and shiny, all done !
    Anyway, thats my experiences with Dr.Colorchip products..
    Dan F
    Excellent, thank you for the feedback and tips!

  12. #27

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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwyfk View Post
    So, you just dab the chip, let it dry, then use the solution to remove the excess without using any kind of squeegee? I plan to tape off the surrounding area...
    As per what stokdgs posted, and the above, I think you`re all set. IMO you`ll figure out the nuances by doing, just keep "BE GENTLE!" in mind

    I`ll be careful, but I wasn`t aware that I could mar the paint surface by using what they include in the kit.
    Heh heh, the sad truth of it is that marring paint is just *incredibly* easy. Even the hardest paint around. Consider autpaint to be about as sensitive as the surface of you eyeball.
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  13. #28

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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Heh heh, the sad truth of it is that marring paint is just *incredibly* easy. Even the hardest paint around. Consider autpaint to be about as sensitive as the surface of you eyeball.
    I pointed the rock chip out to a friend of mine. He laughed at me when I stopped him from touching the area, because I didn`t want him to scratch it, lol.

  14. #29
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    Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    I went on a whole rant on AGO why waxes & sealants are NOT obsolete IMHO. Mainly, they have a lot of benefits:

    1. Cheaper than coatings.
    2. Easier than coatings
    3. No special equipment, environment, maintenance products, or prep products needed to use.
    4. Realistically, yr average car wash Sunday guy / non Auto Geek guy isn`t going to coat his car - at least successfully
    5. Renewing them is as easy as layering another coat.


    Reminds me of when they said everyone would be in flying cars by the 1950s. It never happened. Sure, some people can fly airplanes around - but the bottom line is there is too much investment, knowledge & risk required for the average person when they can just drive in a car that can be operated by any teenager fairly well.

    For me the future is he super durable spray sealants. Not the Reload type coating a bottle - but the stuff like Rupes P808, OCW, Sonax BSD, Prima Hydro Max. Technology is pushing these so manufacturers are claiming 6 mos durability.

    While I think 6 mos is nowhere near realistic at this point - even if you get 2-3 mos, application is a 10 minute wipe down on a clean car. There is no chance of really doing it wrong if you have a clue and no hundreds of dollars initial investment. The majority of people want cheap, fast, and easy these days. These products tick all the boxes.

  15. #30

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    Re: Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

    It`d be nice if OCW performed like FK1000P except for longevity...but much as I do like OCW, it`s nowhere *near* the FK when it comes to protection/etc. I`ll probably end up FKing my wife`s A8 instead of sticking with the oh-so-convenient OCW

 

 
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