LSP Guidance Question - Or: Does FK1000 have a downside?

[jrock645]

Weird, ive had great experiences with 205

[Accumulator]

Weird, ive had great experiences with 205

Yeah, you and most people who`ve tried it

Heh heh...it`s another subject where some of us are, uhm...different

[finick]

finick- I wonder what would happen if you did an intentionally thicker application (not crazy-thick, just enough that you can clearly see it on the paint).

I may give that a try. I washed the car today, and it seems like the LSP had failed in splotches on each panel. Which is interesting because last week(ish) when I washed it was totally fine.

What boggles my mind is that.. if I’m, presumably, putting it on so thin that I’m not even getting full coverage on the panels (I’m assuming this is why it’s failing and looking “splotchy”) you’d think it would have no issues hazing for me to buff it off.

For now I simply rinsed the car off, dried, then went over it with forever rinseless at the spray sealant dilution. I know I can get 2-3 months out of that while I play around with FK1000P.

I’m going to experiment with application on my gfs car (she’ll just be happy it’s clean, I swear) until it seems to go on/off more in line with other people’s experiences. I’ll probably update this thread periodically with thoughts/inquiries.

The one thing that I can say though, is that this smearing phenomenon isn’t isolated to just fk1000p. The first time I used ultimate liquid wax, the exact same thing happened. I’d say the only LSPs I’ve had consistently be easy to apply/remove are carnuba waxes.

I’m starting to think that some paints just don’t accept LSPs well the same way some tires don’t accept dressings, or that I’m doing something fundamentally wrong!

And I too have bunch of M205 that I`ll never use just sitting here. But in my case it`s about a gallon

Oof.. that’s like my mostly full gallon of d151 I have to use up on the cars around here. I hate that stuff!

Weird, ive had great experiences with 205

I tried just about every technique I’d ever seen in any forum post or YouTube video to get both Ultimate Polish AND M205 to finish down haze free on my paint. It was probably the most disappointing polishing experience I’ve ever had lol.

I’m sure m205 works incredibly well on the right paints, but it hazed mine so badly the only appropriate word that ever comes to mind is that it scoured it.

GG Perfecting Cream and HD Polish+ both finish down wonderfully, so I can only assume whatever abrasives Meguiars likes to use are my paints mortal enemy. I originally thought DAT abrasives were the only way I’d get a haze free finish, thankfully that wasn’t the case.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SWETM]

Have you tried different kind of nap on the mf towel when wipe off the fk1000p? Even if I have never used it I would think a first pass with a low nap mf towel. And then buff off with a longer nap mf towel. Since the nature of the fk1000p is a sealant and not the traditional wax. Maybe accumulator can shime in what mf towels do you use?

[finick]

Have you tried different kind of nap on the mf towel when wipe off the fk1000p? Even if I have never used it I would think a first pass with a low nap mf towel. And then buff off with a longer nap mf towel. Since the nature of the fk1000p is a sealant and not the traditional wax. Maybe accumulator can shime in what mf towels do you use?

I indeed have, whether it be the eagle edgeless, minx, creature, or some orange CG towels I still have.. no matter the side, it still smears. It’s very weird.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Accumulator]

SWETM- Heh heh, that "thin side then thick" sounds like the exact opposite of what Ketch told me oughta be done! He said to use a plush terry-weave to "open it up for more air exposure" or somesuch and then buff it out with something less plush/aggressive/etc.

I never bothered trying anything like that as the only problems I`ve ever had were the pseudo-holograms and I can avoid those by just not waxing so much.

MFs for removal? Whatever`s handy. Yeah, really...I give it very little thought as everything works fine for me. From old YoSteve ones to nice plush edgeless of the latest type, to low-nap/suede-style ones...always turns out the same for me.

finick- Yes indeed, a real mystery!

Either that paint, or your environment, or something related to your prep, or a bad tin of FK1000P.

The *only* times I`ve experienced the smearing is when there were compatibility issues between my LSP and whatever penultimate product preceded it.

I could get M205 to finish out OK, but it didn`t look as good as when I finished with other Finishing Polishes. Not bad, most would think great, but not as good as I knew it could be. But mainly it was the Trade Secret Oils that I couldn`t stand.

[Lonnie]

By the way, "Ketch" Accumulator is referring to is Frank Ketchum (AKA, "Grumpy"), a longtime Autopian All-Star/contributor (now missing in action) and in real life a product rep (now retired) for Finish Kare? and Valu-Guard car-care products to the major car manufacturers in the USA , Mazda and Nissan?. His experience, insight, and suggestions/information on car care was invaluable when he posted here MANY years ago (not to mention his sometimes "twisted" humor).

Accumulator:
Not to hi-jack this thread on FK1000P (OK, Captain Obvious, you are), but refresh my memory: What are your compounds and polishes of choice to "replace/supplant" Meg`s M105/M205? Yes, I am in the same boat as you:
1) Have a lot of both to use up (so I use it because of my hobby "budget")
2) Hate the dusting/debris that M105 leaves in window/trunk/hood/door seals or panel edge seams IF it dries out during its (short) working time (and subsequent micro-marring it may (does) induce)
3) Dislike the Trade-Secrete Oils (TSOs) in M205 that require some type of removal by washing or at least an isopropyl wipe or other pre-LSP prep solvent to reduce the risk of LSP-incompatibility and LSP blotches/clouding/hazing (pick one; you know what I mean) with some (but not all) carnauba-based waxes.

I think June Bug or Dave Fermani suggested a good use for no-longer-used M105 as a hand-applied chrome (NOT metal) cleaner. I`ve tried it, it`s OK, but follow up with Optimum`s Metal Polish (good stuff!).

[finick]

What are your compounds and polishes of choice to "replace/supplant" Meg`s M105/M205?

I know this was directed towards accumulator, but as someone else who had poor experiences with Meguiars compounds and polishes, I hope my answer can at least provide a small amount of insight.

The line of Pinnacle compounds/polishes work very well (overpriced imo given what’s on the market.) Mike Phillips actually sent me a bottle of Advanced Swirl Remover to try to see if it would resolve the scouring leftover from m205, pictured in the tape line in the following picture;



I wish I could go back in time and tell myself how to take a better picture! But hopefully you get the idea. M205 is the line down the center, with Advanced Swirl Remover on either side. Huge difference in clarity.

For awhile I was happy using a product like that, but I eventually got tired of having to break down the abrasives if I just wanted to quickly do a polish to clean things up. Not a fan of having to do x amount of passes if I can get the job done in y amount with another product.

Having played around with the Griots Garage BOSS creams, they’re really spectacular. Fast Correcting Cream and Perfecting Cream produce no dust, seem to have infinite work time, and they both finish down beautifully. The same paint that m205 scoured, Fast Correcting Cream finished down LSP ready on a light cutting pad.

The lubrication in the BOSS creams provides a very smooth buffing cycle, and an all around wonderful user experience whether you’re using foam or microfiber. They also smell great.

Wipe off is very easy in my experience. They don’t feel like they leave excessive amounts of residual oils behind like some other products.

I have nothing but good things to say about the BOSS creams. I was worried they’d basically be repackaged m105/205, but they’re miles ahead imo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[finick]

Just an update, for anyone that might come across this in the future with the same issues as I’ve had (and others.)

I took the time tonight to play around with using a megs yellow foam applicator moistened with some QD.

I can’t for the life of me remember what the QD is called, a guy from a place I used to work gave it to me. I think it’s from a company called shine-mate or something.



I took this picture just to give you an idea of how thick of an application it was. Easily visible with the right angle, but standing and looking without light, not super obvious. But then again, maybe that’s an atrociously thick application and I should be ashamed of it!



Got my light out for these following pictures. The right half of the hood, I wiped off after I finished application. As you can (hopefully) see in the picture it wiped very cleanly.



Right half of the hood done, everything wiped down cleanly, seemed to line up with everyone’s experiences I’ve read about.

This is what I found interesting. I went back about 20 minutes later and wiped off the left side, and was greeted with the smearing I normally get.



You can see the streaks heading left to right, in the same way that I made my last passes applying the sealant. It’s worth noting that along the second half of the hood, the applicator had started to become -slightly- grabby on the paint. I didn’t reload because I was aiming to not apply overly thick, so I just rolled with it.

It sort of leads me to wonder if I’d be better off focusing on how the applicator feels going over the paint, and just reloading to make sure it’s gliding as it should, instead of worrying about how thick it’s going on. There really wasn’t a visible difference in the film left behind, so maybe I just think I’m applying it thicker than I really am sometimes.

Maybe I should also aim to just apply to 2-3 panels and go back to remove and see if that helps.

At any rate, using the yellow applicator misted with QD was a wildly different application experience. The Forensics Detailing channel described FK1000P as feeling like butter when working it over a panel (maybe in his mega wax test video.. can’t remember) and it definitely felt like that this time around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MattPersman]

On wax hybrids like that, a moistened applicator with water I usually use, but a QD apparently works too has been the best method to apply thinly. I have also found it best to do 2-3 panels then remove

I see your experience is like mine then


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Accumulator]

[QUOTE=Lonnie;2138446]By the way, "Ketch" Accumulator is referring to is Frank Ketchum (AKA, "Grumpy")..

Close...*very* close! It`s Ron Ketcham. Heh heh, if I misspelled his last name he`ll probably see this thread and email me an admonishment! He moved from FK to AI and recently retired. Gee, was it that long ago?!? Yes indeed, he had, uhm...insights...not available to just anybody and not just in the Domestic Auto Industry but worldwide.

Accumulator:
Not to hi-jack this thread on FK1000P (OK, Captain Obvious, you are), but refresh my memory: What are your compounds and polishes of choice to "replace/supplant" Meg`s M105/M205? Yes, I am in the same boat as you:

Yeah, we`re in the same boat and on the same page with those Compound/Polish concerns! Find it odd that others don`t experience some of the same issues, but OK, whatever...

I`m using M101 instead of M105 but haven`t had to do a whole panel with such stuff in years. I`m leaning towards GG Fast Correcting Creme if/when I buy another compound.

I`m 100% satisfied with 3D (or is it "HD"?!? Got a mental block differentiating ) Polish but hear they`ve "updated" it. Might go GG Perfecting Creme.

Gee, I sound sold on the GG stuff that I`ve never tried, huh?!?

I use M205 on chrome myself and seldom do much follow up.

[Accumulator]

finick- Oh man, you too?!? You guys are gonna get me buying those GG products yet if I`m not resolute about using up what I have!

[finick]

finick- Oh man, you too?!? You guys are gonna get me buying those GG products yet if I`m not resolute about using up what I have!

Absolutely, The BOSS creams are spectacular. I`m fairly certain that I could stop the "search" for a compound/polish I`m happy with after trying this line. It`s worth noting that I just use a standard 8mm throw polisher, and Meguiars pads. Whether it be the burgundy disc or the microfiber disc, FCC is wonderful. PC on the yellow polishing disc/black finishing disc is a dream to use.

I`ve also used 3D HD Polish+, and it`s right up there with PC. If someone made me pick just one, it would be a hard choice. I think the only reasons I would pick PC would be small things like smell, and pad staining. Polish+ doesn`t smell bad, but I prefer the smell of PC (no accounting for taste, of course. as you would say; YMMV.) Polish+ also does stain pads, which isn`t a huge deal to me, but if there`s a product that`s equally nice to use that doesn`t do that, I`m more inclined to pick that one.

[Accumulator]

Working my way through the recent posts on this thread....

Finick- Ah, OK...interesting!

Your application in the first pic is *MUCH* thicker than I do, but...NOW FORGET THAT I POSTED THAT! IMO you gotta do what you gotta do to avoid the smearing so do whatever works, which might be quite different from what works best for me.

YES on the "glide across the paint". Somehow I get that with a minimum or product, but again...NOW FORGET...[etc].

FWIW, I do reload the applicator numerous times per panel. Even small panels. Like...all the time. But... NOW FORGET...

I`ll often do pretty much the whole vehicle (and I`m often doing big ones) before I buff off, but for the upteenth time, that`s just me so NOW...

It sounds like you oughta just use whatever QD works so well and do it that way. I`d fully expect FK425 to do it for you, but I`d hate to steer you off in another direction that might not work out as well as what you`ve already found to work.

I`m just glad you did find a solution!

[finick]

Your application in the first pic is *MUCH* thicker than I do, but...NOW FORGET THAT I POSTED THAT! IMO you gotta do what you gotta do to avoid the smearing so do whatever works, which might be quite different from what works best for me.

It was definitely thicker than I normally apply, having the pad moist with QD made loading it up a lot easier than when I load up a dry pad, so I was kind of caught off guard lol, but it was very smooth applying it.

YES on the "glide across the paint". Somehow I get that with a minimum or product, but again...NOW FORGET...[etc].

FWIW, I do reload the applicator numerous times per panel. Even small panels. Like...all the time. But... NOW FORGET...

I`ll often do pretty much the whole vehicle (and I`m often doing big ones) before I buff off, but for the upteenth time, that`s just me so NOW...

I`m planning on messing around some more with it. I just did the hood, so I`m probably going to do a couple other panels and reload the applicator to get that buttery smooth application and let it set up after applying it that way to see if I can get away with doing a whole car that way. it`s funny.. Even after doing my entire car 3 times, the hood on that mini (blue hood), and my gfs hoood (it`s silver so I didn`t take pictures, couldn`t get anything to show up), it still looks like I haven`t used any of the tin.. So maybe if I do end up applying thicker than I otherwise have been trying to, the tin will last me a few less years

It sounds like you oughta just use whatever QD works so well and do it that way. I`d fully expect FK425 to do it for you, but I`d hate to steer you off in another direction that might not work out as well as what you`ve already found to work.

I`m just glad you did find a solution!

I`d imagine FK425 would work equally as well, this stuff honestly seemed like bottom barrel QD spray. My work buddy just approached me on break and said he`d brought it to give me since he didn`t use it.. I don`t normally have dedicated QD sprays on hand, so it was hard to turn it down! It couldn`t have been more than 40-50oz left in the gallon he gave me, and I`ve been on this last 16oz bottle of it for man... Two years?