LSP Guidance Question - Or: Does FK1000 have a downside?

[Accumulator]

That`s what I like to hear! . I have a sneaking suspicion a small amount of marring that I *do* get from time to time is just because I haven`t been applying a more robust LSP for quite some time now (last 7-8 months maybe.)

Unless you pamper yours as much as I do mine, you might need to redo sooner, even with FK1000P. As for the wash-induced marring, it *might* help a little because of the way it sheds contamination, but it *won`t* help in the sense of "the LSP takes the abuse instead of the paint", just doesn`t work that way as IME you generally mar the paint without disturbing the LSP.

But I`m still glad you got it

..Well, maybe I`ll do a couple panels with HD speed and the rest of the car with the BF AIO, and report back after some time.

It won`t take some time, if the FK1000P doesn`t bond right you`ll have a bit of a mess and a whole new project. I`ll be interested to hear if it works OK, then we`ll know about the compatibility/not.

I`d imagine with the solvents and whatnot present in FK1000P, maybe putting a couple coats on would be enough to obliterate whatever protection HD Speed would leave behind..

It generally doesn`t work that way. I apply FK1000P over somewhat fragile products and it DOES NOT strip/compromise them. The potential issue is that it`ll either create a smeary mess or result in pseudo-holograms.

At any rate, I`ll see what happens just for the sake of trying...

Heh heh, OK... I`ll be interested to hear if it works OK, then we`ll know about the compatibility/not.

.. I was really paranoid that I just wasn`t getting anything on the paint at all. I enjoyed the expedited process of using my DA to apply it, but I sort of missed the tactile feedback...

Huh, I go *entirely* by tactile feedback, how the applicator feels going over the paint is my cue as to coverage since I can`t readily see the LSP.

..Once the verdict is in on FK1000P I may try to unload my M16 and other LSPs to a home that hopefully they`ll be loved in. Enough people love M16 I`m sure that at the very least I can get someone to take that one off my hands.

I dunno...I`ve tried without any real success to sell my M16 and 476S People *say* how popular it is and how people get big $ for it, but mine sat there on FleaBay with only one tin of 476S ever selling. I did sell a can or two of M16 to members here, but eh...I`m still stuck with many cans of both.

[finick]

As for the wash-induced marring, it *might* help a little because of the way it sheds contamination, but it *won`t* help in the sense of "the LSP takes the abuse instead of the paint"

That`s pretty much what I meant, yeah. I feel like solely relying on things such as D156 leaves me missing out on the more robust dirt-shedding capabilities of a beefier LSP. But time will tell, for sure.

It generally doesn`t work that way. I apply FK1000P over somewhat fragile products and it DOES NOT strip/compromise them. The potential issue is that it`ll either create a smeary mess or result in pseudo-holograms.

It won`t take some time, if the FK1000P doesn`t bond right you`ll have a bit of a mess and a whole new project. I`ll be interested to hear if it works OK, then we`ll know about the compatibility/not.

It arrives on friday I believe, so I`ll probably report back sometime in the days following!

Huh, I go *entirely* by tactile feedback, how the applicator feels going over the paint is my cue as to coverage since I can`t readily see the LSP.

Do you always see the haze left behind once your LSP has time to do it`s thing and haze up?

I dunno...I`ve tried without any real success to sell my M16 and 476S People *say* how popular it is and how people get big $ for it, but mine sat there on FleaBay with only one tin of 476S ever selling. I did sell a can or two of M16 to members here, but eh...I`m still stuck with many cans of both.

Well that`s disappointing but I guess i`ll still try, and worst case I can post it up on a trade forum. I`ll just keep my fingers crossed. I still have to sell my gallon of D151 I have sitting in my closet I didn`t like

[Accumulator]

Do you always see the haze left behind once your LSP has time to do it`s thing and haze up?

No, more like "seldom" as opposed to "always". If I work at it I can see it, especially on the dark blue `93 Audi, but on the silver vehicles it`s not obvious enough for me to go by visual cues when buffing off any more than I can while applying, too thin for that.

BUT...it`s not like it`s necessary to do the very thin applications, that`s just how I do it and your comments on the M16 use make me think you`ll do perfectly OK. Eh, I suggest you just do whatever you`d normally do, with confidence that it`ll turn out fine.

[JustJesus]

...BTW, since I quit using M16 on my wife`s car (now just use OCW for the LSP and IUDJ as the usual Drying Aid), it somehow looks *better* than it did with M16. Sure surprised me..but it really does look better. (Using IUDJ as a Drying Aid on FK1000P is even better than that IMO.)

Interesting! I haven`t used IUDJ in a long time. Might have to bring it out again.

Eh, might use it once on a rental or something just to smell the Crayons scent and pretend it`s Back in the Day

hehe...that`s funny.

[Accumulator]

I haven`t used IUDJ in a long time. Might have to bring it out again.

I`ll never get over how unexpectedly pleased I am with IUDJ. NEVER woulda thunk it in a million years. Literally forcing myself to use up gallons of the QDs I once raved about.

hehe...that`s funny.

Doing a full-Autopian job on a black rental Suburban pretty well got me over stuff like that, but I do get out certain products from [long before you were born ] now and then just to have a whiff and remember being Young and Immortal.

[Oneheadlite]

...
VERY different looks! I can`t stand KSG on certain paints (including my silver Audis), but I can bear FK1000P on most anything and I simply *LOVE* it on silver/white/etc., moreso than any other LSP I`ve used or seen. I supsect others would hate it on black or maybe some reds so YMMV. ...

Was it KSG or FK1000 you mention some may not love on blacks/reds? The Mrs’ car is Phantom Black (black metallic)...

What was it that worked against the color?

...
It generally doesn`t work that way. I apply FK1000P over somewhat fragile products and it DOES NOT strip/compromise them. The potential issue is that it`ll either create a smeary mess or result in pseudo-holograms.

Are the pseudo-holograms what you were referring to people not caring for FK1000 on black? Or was that KSG you were talking about?

[Accumulator]

Are the pseudo-holograms what you were referring to people not caring for FK1000 on black? Or was that KSG you were talking about?

No, sorry...wasn`t clear. Heh heh, I can`t imagine anybody being able to stand the pseudo-holograms on *any* color! But yeah, they would show up worse on something dark and FWIW my !oh [crap]! experience was on metallic black, GM Granite Metallic, the same vehicle I thought I`d hate it on, only to decide I loved how it looked (after maybe two weeks).

The pseudo-holograms looked just like light rotary holograms or improperly buffed off LSP or maybe wash-induced marring. They just looked [messed] up, period.

What I meant about the looks is that:

FK1000P looks like a glossy/shallow/sealanty LSP with limited jetting/depth. I thought I`d hate it on dark colors but after a few days I decided I liked it...at least on *those vehicles*, like my Yukon XLD that I referred to above. No, I didn`t talk myself into it because I like FK1000P nor was I influenced by all the complete strangers who came up to compliment how it looked (that actually kinda bugged me). But guys who will split hairs over such stuff will probably say it looks awful beacuse of the lack of depth/jetting/richness (eh, I just won`t comment on that Hey, it`s just car wax).

The KSG is kinda similar in the "looks like a sealant, no depth or richness or jetting" BUT it also has a signature look of "like it`s wrapped/coated with plastic". Looks better with each coat up to four IME, but I JUST DIDN`T LIKE IT on some paints/vehicles and I bet others would`ve hated it even more.

[finick]

Bumping this thread to seek some Accumulator wisdom (or anyone else that can help, I’m not picky!)

My thoughts on FK1000P are mostly favorable at this time. Seems to shed dirt well, and has held up well so far.

My questions are;

1) what applicator do you prefer? I’ve been using a 3.5” flat waxing pad by hand (it’s for a DA) and it’s really not been a super great application experience. It really drags on the surface, which makes it take much longer to lay down a coat that id prefer.

1b) are there any tricks you have to make the applicator glide a little more smoothly that would be applicable to any foam applicator? I believe I’ve seen you mention spritzing some fk425 into the container but I can’t really if that was to soften an unusually hard tin or for a better application experience.

2) the dreaded smearing and oily residue I’ve read about. This seems to be something I simply can’t avoid sometimes. Even when I applied a coat so thin on my hood that I had to go by tactile feel alone because I couldn’t see the residue I was leaving behind, coming back to buff it off later with a light I could still make out that it wasn’t giving me a clean wipe down.

I did experience a great wipe off fresh after polishing and going over the paint with an IPA solution. That was a dream to wipe off, came off very clean.

I’ve also seen people say things along the lines of.. first coat doesn’t go on the smoothest, but the second coat goes on much easier. That hasn’t exactly been my experience.

I like the performance of the sealant very much. I’ve purposefully avoided using anything that would substantially alter the surface characteristics of the LSP after applying it just to see how it holds up.

I’ll usually use d156 or forever rinseless at the QD dilution as I’m drying because it’s just so easy, and it’s done pretty phenomenal so far.

If I can iron out the application process to be smoother/more consistent, this will be a winner in my books.


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[Accumulator]

My questions are;

1) what applicator do you prefer? I’ve been using a 3.5” flat waxing pad by hand (it’s for a DA) and it’s really not been a super great application experience. It really drags on the surface, which makes it take much longer to lay down a coat that id prefer.

1b) are there any tricks you have to make the applicator glide a little more smoothly that would be applicable to any foam applicator? I believe I’ve seen you mention spritzing some fk425 into the container but I can’t really if that was to soften an unusually hard tin or for a better application experience.

I`m tempted to go *against* my usual advice and suggest that you use more product. Can`t believe I`m saying that....

I never give *any* thought to what applicator I use. I just grab a "round foam wax applicator" and do it. Or I`ll do a small area using a MF towel. Or if doing the back side of wheels I`ll use cotton terry. I`ve given "what applicator" absolutely zero consideration! Lucky me, or unlucky you, or...well gee YMMV again.

I`d try better priming the applicator as the first try along lines of "use more product". Don`t go crazy just make sure the entire surface of the applicator has some FK1000P on *and IN the pores of* the foam.

Use an overlapping motion rather than straight lines.

Using some FK425 might help and I`ve never had it interfere with the FK1000P in any way.

2) the dreaded smearing and oily residue I’ve read about. This seems to be something I simply can’t avoid sometimes. Even when I applied a coat so thin on my hood that I had to go by tactile feel alone because I couldn’t see the residue I was leaving behind, coming back to buff it off later with a light I could still make out that it wasn’t giving me a clean wipe down.

I did experience a great wipe off fresh after polishing and going over the paint with an IPA solution. That was a dream to wipe off, came off very clean.[/quote]

Hmmm...trying to reconcile that with my "try using more" even though they seem incompatible...

Since going way overkill on the "prep for a clean surface" works so well, I kinda wonder whether my "don`t worry about it" just doesn`t apply to your situation. Maybe you *do* have to do all that stuff that I always skip!

FWIW, I almost always just apply FK1000P over the previous coat, or on top of some kind of AIO.

What about letting it set up longer? It oughta pass the "finger-swipe test" cleanly before it`s buffed off. Eh, I`m spoiled by my climate-controlled conditions.

Are you fogging the surface with your breath while buffing off? I *always* do that. Every time, every inch. No exceptions.

I assume you`re using your (apparently good) inspection lighting while you buff off so you can accurately gauge your progress.

I’ve also seen people say things along the lines of.. first coat doesn’t go on the smoothest, but the second coat goes on much easier. That hasn’t exactly been my experience.

Now that *really* has me scratching my head! Since it *does* layer, even if doing the solvent-action/pseudo-hologram/uh-oh thing, it`s basically "wax going on top of wax" and oughta be really smooth sailing.

I like the performance of the sealant very much. I’ve purposefully avoided using anything that would substantially alter the surface characteristics of the LSP after applying it just to see how it holds up.

I’ll usually use d156 or forever rinseless at the QD dilution as I’m drying because it’s just so easy, and it’s done pretty phenomenal so far.

I`d be very surprised if either of those messed with FK1000p in any way, but then this appears to be one thread that`s giving me some surprises!

If I can iron out the application process to be smoother/more consistent, this will be a winner in my books.

And *I* will be happier about having recommended it; I really feel that I oughta be able to help sort this out but it`s kinda challenging!

[finick]

I`m tempted to go *against* my usual advice and suggest that you use more product. Can`t believe I`m saying that....

I never give *any* thought to what applicator I use. I just grab a "round foam wax applicator" and do it. Or I`ll do a small area using a MF towel. Or if doing the back side of wheels I`ll use cotton terry. I`ve given "what applicator" absolutely zero consideration! Lucky me, or unlucky you, or...well gee YMMV again.

I`d try better priming the applicator as the first try along lines of "use more product". Don`t go crazy just make sure the entire surface of the applicator has some FK1000P on *and IN the pores of* the foam.

Use an overlapping motion rather than straight lines.

Using some FK425 might help and I`ve never had it interfere with the FK1000P in any way.

Reloading the applicator does seem to facilitate a smoother application process, but at that point it`s almost like I`m willingly putting it on thicker, which seems very counter intuitive.

I`m thinking I may try a QD spray to prime the applicator (it`s not FK425, but hey.. something to experiment with) to see if that makes the pad I use more manageable. These are the pads I have available to use;



Feeling them, the foam composition does feel pretty different, so next time I apply I may see if the yellow megs ones feel any better. I do like the red one though. The megs one causes my hand to cramp after awhile because it`s so small and my hands are on the larger side.

Hmmm...trying to reconcile that with my "try using more" even though they seem incompatible...

Since going way overkill on the "prep for a clean surface" works so well, I kinda wonder whether my "don`t worry about it" just doesn`t apply to your situation. Maybe you *do* have to do all that stuff that I always skip!

FWIW, I almost always just apply FK1000P over the previous coat, or on top of some kind of AIO.

What about letting it set up longer? It oughta pass the "finger-swipe test" cleanly before it`s buffed off. Eh, I`m spoiled by my climate-controlled conditions.

Are you fogging the surface with your breath while buffing off? I *always* do that. Every time, every inch. No exceptions.

I assume you`re using your (apparently good) inspection lighting while you buff off so you can accurately gauge your progress.

I admittedly don`t "prep" the surface after a polish super often. It was just one of those "well I have it mixed up, may as well go for it" (the IPA mixture, that is) moments.

The second coat that I applied actually set up overnight in the garage, and still didn`t buff off cleanly. This was also the coat that didn`t seem to go on any easier than the initial one, for whatever reason.

I did attempt fogging the surface on one of my fenders, and it didn`t seem to make any difference in the smearing. I`m also indeed keeping my light handy to make sure things are going smoothly.

Now that *really* has me scratching my head! Since it *does* layer, even if doing the solvent-action/pseudo-hologram/uh-oh thing, it`s basically "wax going on top of wax" and oughta be really smooth sailing.

This has been my experience with various carnubas I`ve used, so I was pretty surprised it wasn`t the case (for me) with FK1000P.

I`d be very surprised if either of those messed with FK1000p in any way, but then this appears to be one thread that`s giving me some surprises!

I didn`t mean that they`d necessarily work against FK1000P, just more that I was playing around to see how it holds up on it`s own without regular topping from a QD or spray wax. I`ve almost always wiped the car down with something following a wash, so I figured I`d let this sealant show me what it`s got.

And *I* will be happier about having recommended it; I really feel that I oughta be able to help sort this out but it`s kinda challenging!

Well I`m for sure glad I got it, it really does shed dirt well during a rinse before I wash, and it`s a tremendous value considering how little you use. it almost seems impossible to pinpoint an issue (or maybe some paints just don`t like certain LSPs, who knows) without incredibly well documented steps with pictures and/or videos for someone to see clearly what I`m doing. But once I iron out an application process that lines up with what other people are experiencing, this stuff will probably have a permanent spot in my arsenal unless I jump ship to coatings at some point.

[ShawnF350]

I haven`t had a chance to do much detailing lately, but yesterday I changed a few adhesive numbers on my 3 year old medium sized brown mailbox.
I couldn`t help myself and put a coat of FK on it.
Other than where the flag gently scratched it, it`s got a gloss like no other on the street.

Definitely do the FK.
And please guys, and gals take your time getting to your box.... No running.
��

[EdLancer]

That`s what I like to hear! I took advantage of a sale over on autogeek tonight and grabbed a tin of FK1000P, a BOGO 4" waxing pad, and another sample of the new BF AIO. I`m eager to give it a try. I have a sneaking suspicion a small amount of marring that I *do* get from time to time is just because I haven`t been applying a more robust LSP for quite some time now (last 7-8 months maybe.)

Well, maybe I`ll do a couple panels with HD speed and the rest of the car with the BF AIO, and report back after some time. I`d imagine with the solvents and whatnot present in FK1000P, maybe putting a couple coats on would be enough to obliterate whatever protection HD Speed would leave behind.. I can`t imagine being able to quantify something like that though. At any rate, I`ll see what happens just for the sake of trying.



Interestingly enough, I was really paranoid that I just wasn`t getting anything on the paint at all. I enjoyed the expedited process of using my DA to apply it, but I sort of missed the tactile feedback. On the areas like the trunk lid where I applied it slightly thicker, and could see the haze of product with the right angle.. It still buffed off effortlessly. The rest of the paint where I couldn`t see anything no matter how hard I tried felt super slick, but I just felt like I was wiping at nothing at all.



Once the verdict is in on FK1000P I may try to unload my M16 and other LSPs to a home that hopefully they`ll be loved in. Enough people love M16 I`m sure that at the very least I can get someone to take that one off my hands.

M16 wax and gun is as American as apple pie always have a few tins in inventory to show your an old timer ! ...LoL
The Collinite twins 845IW and 476S is still my go to LSP, been dying to try some FK1000P but their limited availability is an issue unless I have to buy a ton of stuff from an online retailer to make it affordable with shipping.

[Accumulator]

finick- Eh, your latest post kinda puts me back at square1! Wonder what`s going on...

Every time I think "this probably won`t work well under FK1000P, better just do a tiny test spot"...surprise, it works fine. SO why you might be having these issues simply confounds me.

I`d probably take one section, strip it to bare paint, use something that I *KNOW* is FK1000P-friendly, and see what happens. Got any KAIO or ZAIO?

If you were applying the FK right after polishing with something like M205 I`d just blame those Trade Secret Oils, but that doesn`t seem to be the case. Eh, I`m still stumped, and/but sure glad you`re happy with it nonetheless and not blaming me for wasting your money on a problematic product!

ShawnF350- I bet that *is* a dramatic improvement on the mailbox!

EdLancer- Since you`re using the same waxes that I used to swear by, I`d sure be interested in your opinion if you ever do try the FK.

[finick]

I`d probably take one section, strip it to bare paint, use something that I *KNOW* is FK1000P-friendly, and see what happens. Got any KAIO or ZAIO?

If you were applying the FK right after polishing with something like M205 I`d just blame those Trade Secret Oils, but that doesn`t seem to be the case. Eh, I`m still stumped, and/but sure glad you`re happy with it nonetheless and not blaming me for wasting your money on a problematic product!

The only AIO products I have are hd speed and blackfire one step.

I had originally planned to top hd speed or bf one step with fk1000p, but decided if I wanted to really experience its full glory I’d use a dedicated polish (hd polish+ in this case) and prep the paint with an IPA wipe.

What’s funny is the first time I applied fk1000p after the polishing/prep, about a few days later it seemed as though it had completely failed on my horizontal panels. I reapplied at that point (didn’t buff off cleanly this time) and its held up wonderfully since.

I’m definitely pleased at how it’s held up thus far, and considering on sale it was like 15 bucks.. can’t really be upset about that! I still have a quart of m205 I can’t use because it scours my paint something fierce, talk about a disappointing purchase...


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[Accumulator]

finick- I wonder what would happen if you did an intentionally thicker application (not crazy-thick, just enough that you can clearly see it on the paint).

And I too have bunch of M205 that I`ll never use just sitting here. But in my case it`s about a gallon