1. #556
    wannafbody
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Yeah, the self cleaning nature of SIO2 products seems to be an advantage. Ideally, I`d like a product that I could use and then occasionally touch up and just run through the coin op spray car wash without having a dirty film on the surface. I believe that a lot of what I see stuck on my vehicles are oils that come to the road surface in the heat and then get splashed on the car when it rains.

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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by roscopervis View Post
    Is this aimed at Crystal Sealant specifically?
    Quote Originally Posted by acuRAS82 View Post
    Me also curious what this is referring to. Most of the shorter-lived sprays I’ve used didn’t require prepped surface. If talking about Wowo’s Crystal Sealant, I cant say much yet as it’s only been a month. But ease/quickness of re-use (including as a drying aid for some) is probably a heavy strength that SiO2 sprays hold over competition products.
    Sorry its a two part rant but written with Crystal Sealant in mind.

    It`s not a topper, so it`s in a very unique bracket of heavier duty products like Cancoat and TAC Moonlight, which require paint prep, degreasing and if you get it wrong a machine to buff off high-spots. Thus rules out detailing novices from using the product.

    Any enthusiast I know can`t keep their hands off their car and will know enough to want a really good performing product. If they want something long lasting they`ll go to the bother of applying a coating or lite coating which is as easy if not easier to apply, then use a dedicated SIo2 topper to keep it performing at it`s best? I encouraged a friend to try it on his car and he`s been massively underwhelmed. It`s still there but it`s just `fine` and the least slick part of his car. People get carried away with durability I feel, why go to all that bother for mediocrity, durability is only useful where you really want to enjoy something month after month!
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  3. #558
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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by atbalfour View Post
    Sorry its a two part rant but written with Crystal Sealant in mind.

    It`s not a topper, so it`s in a very unique bracket of heavier duty products like Cancoat and TAC Moonlight, which require paint prep, degreasing and if you get it wrong a machine to buff off high-spots. Thus rules out detailing novices from using the product.

    Any enthusiast I know can`t keep their hands off their car and will know enough to want a really good performing product. If they want something long lasting they`ll go to the bother of applying a coating or lite coating which is as easy if not easier to apply, then use a dedicated SIo2 topper to keep it performing at it`s best? I encouraged a friend to try it on his car and he`s been massively underwhelmed. It`s still there but it`s just `fine` and the least slick part of his car. People get carried away with durability I feel, why go to all that bother for mediocrity, durability is only useful where you really want to enjoy something month after month!
    I agree durability/longevity is only a plus if the product performs well enough to make the user happy! I do some longevity testing here but I’m also monitoring the performance throughout the timeframe. It’s pretty much impossible and argumentative to try test “gloss” or “slickness”, etc. other than to point out if something is really a step above if others. Sorry that your friend isn’t enjoying the Crystal Sealant application or slickness. This is good feedback to forum members to consider.

    Note: the bottle directions do not require a perfectly prepped surface. Not that I expect it to perform better on a poorly prepped surface... just bringing it up as a possible advantage for the product.
    Likes atbalfour liked this post

  4. #559

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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by acuRAS82 View Post
    I agree durability/longevity is only a plus if the product performs well enough to make the user happy! I do some longevity testing here but I’m also monitoring the performance throughout the timeframe. It’s pretty much impossible and argumentative to try test “gloss” or “slickness”, etc. other than to point out if something is really a step above if others. Sorry that your friend isn’t enjoying the Crystal Sealant application or slickness. This is good feedback to forum members to consider.

    Note: the bottle directions do not require a perfectly prepped surface. Not that I expect it to perform better on a poorly prepped surface... just bringing it up as a possible advantage for the product.
    You`re right, and maybe I`m being overly harsh having arrived at my own conclusion that other products give you more. I did feel the panel and it wasn`t quite grabby, but it definitely wasn`t slick. Every person will have a level of expectation they are happy with I suppose. My friend`s initial application of CS was without polishing or panel wipe and got poor durability. He then received advice to use a panel wipe at minimum to allow for a better bond. That, combined with the 2+ towels to remove, and Wowos own claim that you`ll need a machine to remove high spots tells me enough to say that application isn`t a tonne different to a lite coating.

    Almost every review of the V2 I have seen refers to hazing on removal, I haven`t seen the same with Cancoat or Moonlight which are extremely high benchmarks to be fair.

  5. #560
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    I’ve used it a few times. I got for $14. It’s more of a durable sealant than topper I can agree to that it gave me a hassle until I got it off quick and used a damp towel. This would be good for someone who want to apply 1-2s coat in October and then set it and forget it until April. I like it. It feels substantial just something about it. Bathroom caulk scent in all let’s you know your not using a quick detailer with a wee bit of SIO in it
    Thanks acuRAS82 thanked for this post

  6. #561
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    I was looking through my notes spreadsheet and I did label this one as standalone product, rather than most other SiO2 sprays where I can find evidence of topper (typically “as a topper on your favorite coating or use standalone!”).

  7. #562
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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by atbalfour View Post
    Sorry its a two part rant but written with Crystal Sealant in mind.

    It`s not a topper, so it`s in a very unique bracket of heavier duty products like Cancoat and TAC Moonlight, which require paint prep, degreasing and if you get it wrong a machine to buff off high-spots. Thus rules out detailing novices from using the product.

    Any enthusiast I know can`t keep their hands off their car and will know enough to want a really good performing product. If they want something long lasting they`ll go to the bother of applying a coating or lite coating which is as easy if not easier to apply, then use a dedicated Sio2 topper to keep it performing at it`s best? I encouraged a friend to try it on his car and he`s been massively underwhelmed. It`s still there but it`s just `fine` and the least slick part of his car. People get carried away with durability I feel, why go to all that bother for mediocrity, durability is only useful where you really want to enjoy something month after month!
    Of all the people I `follow` on detailing forums, I would say you have quite a distinct set of demands from your protection products, the qualities of which I don`t particularly understand either. This isn`t a sleight in any way. I appreciate your comments and reviews, though it clearly shows that different people look for different things in products, and a difference of opinion in what ease of use actually is may come into it.

    The original Crystal Sealant says it could be applied over or under a wax (Wowo`s products at least). Common sense would dictate that the best results would come on a well prepared surface, but it isn`t sold as a coating lite, but as a durable sealant that, for the performance, is easy to use. Wipe on a section, and immediately wipe off, then final buff with a dry cloth. I paid £12.99 for 500ml and for the performance I`ve had out of it, I cannot fault it.

    I`d much rather a product like that than Polish Angel stuff that promises fantastical claims of durability and which includes ingredients that sound impressive, but which offer very dubious benefits in anything other than the very short term and cost, well, a lot.

    Slickness is over rated for me, I`d much rather something that holds up and is versatile whilst allowing the initial gloss to be protected as much as possible.

  8. #563

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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by roscopervis View Post
    Of all the people I `follow` on detailing forums, I would say you have quite a distinct set of demands from your protection products, the qualities of which I don`t particularly understand either. This isn`t a sleight in any way. I appreciate your comments and reviews, though it clearly shows that different people look for different things in products, and a difference of opinion in what ease of use actually is may come into it.

    The original Crystal Sealant says it could be applied over or under a wax (Wowo`s products at least). Common sense would dictate that the best results would come on a well prepared surface, but it isn`t sold as a coating lite, but as a durable sealant that, for the performance, is easy to use. Wipe on a section, and immediately wipe off, then final buff with a dry cloth. I paid £12.99 for 500ml and for the performance I`ve had out of it, I cannot fault it.

    I`d much rather a product like that than Polish Angel stuff that promises fantastical claims of durability and which includes ingredients that sound impressive, but which offer very dubious benefits in anything other than the very short term and cost, well, a lot.

    Slickness is over rated for me, I`d much rather something that holds up and is versatile whilst allowing the initial gloss to be protected as much as possible.
    I can`t disagree that they are distinct - I want my LSP to do everything yet be compatible with my coating.. that`s a lot to ask and the cost is high.

    The reality is that in the dozens of well regarded products I`ve tried Polish Angel comes closest - if they were a bit more resistant to alkaline cleaners (I don`t do huge miles so this is my LSP killer ... not traffic film, pollen, salt) I`d buy 5 gallons of the stuff and be done.

    I used TAC Shinee Wax tonight for the first time, universally liked... `super easy to use` according to many independent Youtubers. I hated using it, i found it to be smeary and grabby until the film was removed. I`d imagine it`d be a nightmare to use in heat or as a drying aid. Gave my dad some to try and he said he`s never used something so easy. The reality is that Cosmic and High Gloss spoil me, one towel gets you around the car, wet, dry, direct sunlight - no energy, no fuss and very satisfying to see it melt into the paint.

    I couldn`t sleep at night being duped out of that amount of money, so I take some confidence that the gloss meter backs up my own perception that these products really can perform at the top end with very few able to match them. How much the human eye can discern isn`t important to me - knowing that it`d be hard to beat is sufficient as crazy as that sounds when reading it back. The reality is, I love detailing and I do a fair few cars a year because I enjoy the transformation and it funds my own obsession of squeezing the very last bit out of my car`s paint, and I know there are plenty of others the same on here... a few PA fans too lol.

    I probably am not the best person to give a view on Crystal Sealant - anything long lasting that goes on my own paint needs to leave thickness and add hardness and top-able with something very very hydrophobic. CS as an underlying product doesn`t do that - do many enthusiasts really leave cars for 6 months plus without topping?

    Until my friend`s experience I was looking into using it on the cars I detail - I believe there to be easier to use products out there that leave a nicer feeling more hydrophobic surface. My only point in bringing it up was a genuine question of why you wouldn`t go lite-ceramic instead for as much if not less effort..?

    Anyway... back to coatings
    Likes BudgetPlan1, acuRAS82, roscopervis liked this post

  9. #564
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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by atbalfour View Post
    My only point in bringing it up was a genuine question of why you wouldn`t go lite-ceramic instead for as much if not less effort..?
    Anyway... back to coatings
    Simply - cost! Full price for 500ml (16oz) is £18.99. I just picked up some v3 for £12.73 with their sale. Compare this to Cancoat - 200ml is £33. Also, it is much more fussy about curing. Gyeon says Cancoat will retain most of its hydrophobic and self cleaning properties for 9000 miles if looked after. I think that is not too dissimilar to CS, albeit having its own level.

    TAC Systems Moonlight - £35 for 250 ml and similar performance to Cancoat.

    CQuartz Lite (my choice) - £42 for 150ml - probably 50% more durability performance than Cancoat.

    Master the knack of CS and you get a lot of applications out of the 500ml. It of course can be maintained with many products that may boost hydrophobics if you want, as can the others. It is proving to be resistant to Fse too, unlike BSD/PNS and TW SnS and potentially many ceramic products. It can also be applied through a foam cannon, 50ml to 450ml water. Versatile.

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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by roscopervis View Post
    CQuartz Lite (my choice) - £42 for 150ml - probably 50% more durability performance than Cancoat.
    Is this reference to performance based on actual observation or product claims? I`ve had CanCoat on my car for 10 months and it will easily last a year or longer. I figured CQuartz Lite was similar in durability.
    Drop by to see the latest at The Car Geek Blog

  11. #566
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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertnate View Post
    Is this reference to performance based on actual observation or product claims? I`ve had CanCoat on my car for 10 months and it will easily last a year or longer. I figured CQuartz Lite was similar in durability.

    definitely matters where you are. Here where i am in Colorado. Everthing seems to have a much shorter life. I`ve lived in Michigan, ohio, Kansas, Houston, San Antonio, elPaso, and Colorado has been the hardest on lsp`s. I mentioned the Texas cities because each one of those is like being in a different state. I tried cancoat here and got about four months.
    Making someone else happy, is one of the best feelings.
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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by atbalfour View Post
    I can`t disagree that they are distinct - I want my LSP to do everything yet be compatible with my coating.. that`s a lot to ask and the cost is high.

    The reality is that in the dozens of well regarded products I`ve tried Polish Angel comes closest - if they were a bit more resistant to alkaline cleaners (I don`t do huge miles so this is my LSP killer ... not traffic film, pollen, salt) I`d buy 5 gallons of the stuff and be done.

    I used TAC Shinee Wax tonight for the first time, universally liked... `super easy to use` according to many independent Youtubers. I hated using it, i found it to be smeary and grabby until the film was removed. I`d imagine it`d be a nightmare to use in heat or as a drying aid. Gave my dad some to try and he said he`s never used something so easy. The reality is that Cosmic and High Gloss spoil me, one towel gets you around the car, wet, dry, direct sunlight - no energy, no fuss and very satisfying to see it melt into the paint.

    I couldn`t sleep at night being duped out of that amount of money, so I take some confidence that the gloss meter backs up my own perception that these products really can perform at the top end with very few able to match them. How much the human eye can discern isn`t important to me - knowing that it`d be hard to beat is sufficient as crazy as that sounds when reading it back. The reality is, I love detailing and I do a fair few cars a year because I enjoy the transformation and it funds my own obsession of squeezing the very last bit out of my car`s paint, and I know there are plenty of others the same on here... a few PA fans too lol.

    I probably am not the best person to give a view on Crystal Sealant - anything long lasting that goes on my own paint needs to leave thickness and add hardness and top-able with something very very hydrophobic. CS as an underlying product doesn`t do that - do many enthusiasts really leave cars for 6 months plus without topping?

    Until my friend`s experience I was looking into using it on the cars I detail - I believe there to be easier to use products out there that leave a nicer feeling more hydrophobic surface. My only point in bringing it up was a genuine question of why you wouldn`t go lite-ceramic instead for as much if not less effort..?

    Anyway... back to coatings
    Have you tried Kamikaze Overcoat?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #568
    roscopervis's Avatar
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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertnate View Post
    Is this reference to performance based on actual observation or product claims? I`ve had CanCoat on my car for 10 months and it will easily last a year or longer. I figured CQuartz Lite was similar in durability.
    Based on a couple of things really. First, CQuartz Lite has much more solids in its mix than Cancoat - 45% to 25% so CQuartz Lite is much more like a coating.

    Secondly, I watch a lot of YouTube (insomnia is a pain) and I have seen a few videos testing them both side by side. It is clear that CQuartz Lite is much more heavy duty and more durable than Cancoat.

    https://youtu.be/e9X58BquJrw
    https://youtu.be/uKCfElmhYH0

    Those are a good couple of examples.

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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by roscopervis View Post
    Based on a couple of things really. First, CQuartz Lite has much more solids in its mix than Cancoat - 45% to 25% so CQuartz Lite is much more like a coating.

    Secondly, I watch a lot of YouTube (insomnia is a pain) and I have seen a few videos testing them both side by side. It is clear that CQuartz Lite is much more heavy duty and more durable than Cancoat.

    https://youtu.be/e9X58BquJrw
    https://youtu.be/uKCfElmhYH0

    Those are a good couple of examples.
    Nit picking but Jon used an out of date bottle of Cancoat and Moonlight and Sandro didn`t seem to know to allow the recommended 7 days before hitting with detergents (he`s using a concentrated iron remover after 72 hours lol).

    Wouldn`t be convinced CQuartz Lite is worth the extra, considering it`s not as slick, not as hydrophobic and Cancoat goes a lot further (for me 8 cars, 2 coats each)? I`ve just polished Cancoat off my wife`s car, 7 months and performing as new hit with BH Auto Foam every week and Power Maxed TFR as a pre-pre wash in winter. That is exceptional performance, can`t comment on Lite but look forward to trying it as a base layer in the future.
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  15. #570

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    Re: NO REALLY...I MEAN IT THIS TIME!!! Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Coatings=crack View Post
    Have you tried Kamikaze Overcoat?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I have - they are neck and neck, Overcoat probably edges it overall.

    Water behaviour is different (micro beads vs extreme contact angle), Overcoat is a little more durable with better filling capability. I`ve recently seen it applied to a scuffed up test panel and the results are astonishing for pure filling ability. Interestingly Car Pro Lite and Crystal Sealant also fared well on the same panel.

    For me, the trade off is that you get double the amount of Cosmic for 100ml of Overcoat and it`s much nicer to use. Whether it`s just me I don`t know, but for products with similar chemical components they give completely distinct looks to paintwork. Pure reflective glass vs. Cosmic accentuating metallics and giving a glow you`d normally associate with wax based products.

    Always keep both - KK Overcoat for winter, PA Cosmic for summer.
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