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  1. #466
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by atgonzales View Post
    Always a pleasure reading your posts, true, honest and to the point
    Well said. But if you like Budget`s posts here. take a look at some of his reviews on the Kamikaze line and other products on the Esoteric Car Care website.
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  2. #467
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quick Update on Winter 2019 Coatings


    Race Red 2019 Ford F250 Super Duty – Cquartz UK 3.0 x 2, Gliss V2 x 1, applied 01/08/2019 – Now at 7k miles. Still looks very nice, albeit lower miles than other vehicles. This truck generally sits in warehouse every night so that helps. Has been hand-washed once in early June but that’s about it. It still has a very nice gloss, beads well and stays nicely clean w/ little intervention. As this is company ‘construction’ vehicle, it doesn’t see the usage other vehicles do but when it is used, it’s a hard day. This has had a variety of things running down the side (wet concrete slurry, other chemicals, muck from cleaning out pools that have turned into ponds…stuff like that). Would I use this combo again: Yes, without a doubt…it’s done well.


    Race Red 2018 Ford Transit E150 – 22ple VXPRO2 + Finitura+ VS1, Feb 2019 – Now at 18k miles. This vehicle has likely seen no maintenance, tunnel wash or otherwise, since being sent out into the world soon after it was coated. Unfortunately, 22ple kinda let me down with their highest-priced consumer product; it just didn’t stay very clean, was prone to environmental ‘staining’ from sitting outside, definitely did far worse than their HPC product which has just been great in theses situations since I first used it in March of 2017. Worthwhile to note that Detailed Image, the 22ple vendor, no longer offers this product (or their entry-level ‘Signature’ coating) and is now just showing the not-yet-released 22ple Insanity coating along with the HPC offering. In my experience 22ple has been among the best I’ve used at staying clean w/ little intervention although visibly entertaining water behavior has always been just average, a worthwhile trade off for me. And I still really have no idea what Finitura brings to the table long-term. Even if available, I wouldn’t use this coating again…HPC has done far better.


    Race Red 2019 Ford Transit Connect – Kamikaze Miyabi + Zipang + Overcoat, Feb 2019 – Now at 16k miles. I chose poorly with regards to the vehicle I used this on, thinking I would be able to watch it closely over the course of the Summer. The Tech assigned to this vehicle rarely came to the shop so I was only able to see the vehicle 3 or 4 times over the course of the Summer and never got a chance to look closely at it. This guy apparently lives in a rural area and 2 of the times I did see the vehicle, it was covered stem-to-stern in bird bombs, like he parked it each night under a Tetradactyl nest. Last time I saw it he must run it thru the local touchless tunnel wash as the gloss was good and it looked great but I wasn’t able to look closely. I think he mentioned cleaning it off with a bath towel once so it’ll be interesting to see what it looks like ‘nose-to-paint’ in a few weeks when most of the seasonal folks are done for the year. Self-cleaning appears to be on-par with my other Kamikaze experiences from a distance but up close will be the true test. I’ve had the Miyabi-Zipang combo on one of my personal cars since late Spring 2019 and it’s performing as expected despite not getting washed much but getting a close look at this particular vehicle in a few weeks will be more indicative of how it holds up in a truly ‘industrial’ setting. Since this is what I choose for my personal cars, obviously I’d use this combo again and might do another new vehicle this Winter with it.


    Race Red 2018 Ford Transit E150 – Gtechniq CSL x 1 + EXOV4 x 2, February 2019 – Now at 15.5k miles. Overall, it’s OK but in my mind a bit of a letdown given all the reports of how amazing this combo is. Water behavior has diminished significantly since initially coated and it stays reasonably clean but nothing near 22ple or Kamikaze. This vehicle has seen the local touchless soap-rinse tunnel wash 2 or 3 times this season but that’s about it. Dunno if EXO V4 requires more maintenance to keep it doing well but was kinda disappointed with this combo as far as ‘fire and forget’ goes. Bummer because CSL is one of the most enjoyable applications I have done, silky smooth on application and removal. Would I use this combo again…probably not but I am looking for some other possible combos with CSL as a base cuz it seems to be a pretty tough customer.


    On a Gtechniq side note, I had first used CLS in January 2017, topped with C2V3. The self-cleaning characteristics of that combo were terrible, (easily removed) water spots after each rain. A couple of months in, after the C2V3 wore off most likely, it started doing better in that respect and then just for giggles, I topped it with CanCoat at the end of the season and it proved to be a very, very nice combo. Saw the van this morning and the richness of the CSL was still present and while the candy-ness of the CanCoat has worn away the vehicle still looks very good. I think this Tech is one who takes a bit more pride in his vehicle and runs thru the local soap/rinse touchless wash more often than others but regardless, I’m kinda impressed on how good the vehicle looks overall. CSL is more of a ‘sheeter’ and beading is not that great but it keeps itself looking pretty good, all things considered.
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  3. #468
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Thanks for the update, Budget


    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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  4. #469
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    It is funny that you mention staining on 22ple VX Pro2. I noticed the same thing last weekend on my dad`s car. It is at 9 months at the moment. Like you it is a coating that I would not reach for again and that is made easier with the discontinuation of it.
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  5. #470
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Guz View Post
    It is funny that you mention staining on 22ple VX Pro2. I noticed the same thing last weekend on my dad`s car. It is at 9 months at the moment. Like you it is a coating that I would not reach for again and that is made easier with the discontinuation of it.
    Yeah, that was a real bummer considering how well HPC has done over the long haul. Dunno if I`m gonna give the Insanity a try this winter...may just go with proven winners this time around. There was absolutely nothing I found with the Pro2 that I preferred over HPC.

    Although it has less miles than the others, the CQUK 3 + Gliss just looks so vibrant and fresh, really like it.
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  6. #471

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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Thanks for the updates Budgetplan! Interesting to hear about the experience with the coatings in a fire and forget kind of way. Also will be interesting to hear about when you get a closer look at the Miyabi and Zipang combo. And if it`s possible to activate the self healing ability from it. But that`s maybe on damage that happens on it closer when it accurs.

    Don`t get talked about it much but think it`s kind of a new coating. The 3D Ceramic Coating kit that is and a very simple name of a coating LOL. Don`t know if you have seen it and have thinked about trying it?

    / Tony

  7. #472
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by SWETM View Post
    Thanks for the updates Budgetplan! Interesting to hear about the experience with the coatings in a fire and forget kind of way. Also will be interesting to hear about when you get a closer look at the Miyabi and Zipang combo. And if it`s possible to activate the self healing ability from it. But that`s maybe on damage that happens on it closer when it accurs.

    Don`t get talked about it much but think it`s kind of a new coating. The 3D Ceramic Coating kit that is and a very simple name of a coating LOL. Don`t know if you have seen it and have thinked about trying it?

    / Tony
    I heard a brief mention of the 3D kit, figure it will be something akin to Blackfire or McKees coating but whatever it it, if`n it`s from 3D/HD it`ll probably be extremely easy to use and priced nicely. Looks to be about $65 for 50ml but I see no mention of longevity `guesses`. Appears to be pretty much wipe on, wipe off.

    Happened to catch the Zipang truck for a minute, he was here early this morning for a bit to load up. Didn`t get a chance to look close but since he had a case of 4 gallons of Muriatic Acid sitting on the hood along with a tool belt, guessing that thing is gonna be wrecked by the time he leaves for the season in 2 weeks. Not even self-healing PPF would fix that.

    With regards to coatings, I think the whole `self-healing` moniker attached to some is a recipe for disappointment. Given the limited thickness of any coating, it`s just not gonna be able to rebound from all but the lightest towel marring...hence why most of the tests use a very fine metal bristle brush to mark it up and then heal it. When I put the Zipang on this truck last year, I went at it with a dirty cotton shop towel to mark it up and it did reduce the marks when heat applied but didn`t totally remove them.

    The product description is worded in a way to temper expectations: "...and it offers semi self-healing characteristics, meaning that the appearance of small swirls or imperfections in the coating surface will reduce when exposed to heat."

    I`ve had the combo on wife`s winter car since last May and did the Cayman last month so I`ve been able to watch it closely on cars that do receive somewhat regular and OCD-ish care. So far, so good but w/ regards to the `self-healing` I`m just happy if it reduces the limited towel marring that occurs over time due to, well, due to just the way life goes.

    The PPF on the Vette has far better self-healing due to film thickness but I noticed STEK `self-healing` vids also use the same very fine, metal brush to inflict `heal-able` defects. I dunno, maybe people look and say "Hey, they used a metal brush on the paint and it healed!!" but I still think a dirty cotton towel will put harsher/deeper marks on the paint that will be beyond and coatings ability to completely remove.

    I kinda look at coating self-healing much like using a foam cannon...it can`t hurt and maybe it will help.

    We`ve got 4 new vans coming around the first of the year, so far dunno if I`m gonna try to use something new on them or just go lazy and do them all with a 1-layer coating instead of screwing around with multiple layers of things. ClearFinish outta NJ has a coating that they claim has self-healing properties but I`ve not heard too much about it:

    Titanium Premium Quartz Coating is a 3-5 year 9H coating that can be applied to paint, glass, rims and trim. Titanium Premium Quartz Coating takes 20-30 seconds to flash. Very durable and has self healing properties in it. Comes with 2 suede stitched applicators. VOC compliant
    We`re migrating to a completely new business system here at work this winter which unfortunately falls in my lap (I came to a pool company to get away from this computer/systems crap...that didn`t go too well) so dunno how much time I`ll have to muck around with coatings this winter. Will do the 4 vehicles in something and 4 passes with a BS Uro_Fiber pad & GG Correcting Cream cleans up the new Ford paint nicely for prep so it`s gonna be a quick process.

    Interesting time of year here, most vans now start from shop each morning so I do get to see more of them. Wandering thru this morning see Gyeon Syncro, Kami Miyabi/ISM, Cquartz TiO2, Feynlab Ceramic, 22ple VXPRO2, 22ple HPC, Gtechniq CSL + EXO and a few others outside. Looks like the Cquartz TiO2 (first one I did back in January 2017) is about at it`s end of life. 35k miles on Miyabi/ISM done in January 2018 still looks pretty good (but then again, everything looks `good` in a cellphone pic):

    van1kami.jpg

    Trying new stuff is beginning to get to the point of diminishing returns...there`s always gonna be something new and it`s impossible to keep up.

    I saw a quick mention from Gyeon that they were gonna come out with a coating-accreditation program for mobile detailers...wonder if that will involve a new product from them? Expect to hear more around SEMA time I guess.
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  8. #473
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    I saw a quick mention from Gyeon that they were gonna come out with a coating-accreditation program for mobile detailers...wonder if that will involve a new product from them? Expect to hear more around SEMA time I guess.
    My sources say yes it will be a new product for mobile detailers. I have also been told that Gyeon is looking to make this a competitor to Cquartz Lite.
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  9. #474

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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Guz View Post
    My sources say yes it will be a new product for mobile detailers. I have also been told that Gyeon is looking to make this a competitor to Cquartz Lite.
    Maybe a product like Gyeon CanCoat Pro but with a shorter cure time.

    On that subject has anyone heared or used the CanCoat Pro version? Know that`s a certified only product but buzz about it?

    Budgetplan: So much valueble information! Totaly agree with you on the semi-selfhealing properties from coatings on how to look at them. Maybe I`m more after how it is for the average Joe and Jane user. Say they have gotten some marring and scratches on the coating. With activate the self healing ability with hot water or heat gun or how you do it. Would it be a benefit looks wise for them so the marring and scratches gets less visible. Most of us Autopians would be reapply the coating for sure. But others would it be any benefit from how it looks as if the whiteish edges in a way get diminished? And a topper to mask it a little more and maybe added protection to the damage parts. So they can have the coating on until it`s degraded performance is such low so a reapplication is needed. Totaly understand if not possible. But if you where able to do something to activate the self healing and either taking before and after pictures or describe how you experienced it on the van/truck with miyabi/Zipang. If it where noticeble in a way or if it didn`t show any improvement at all on the defects. Sorry maybe asking to much of you. It would be very interesting to hear how it worked on a neglected paint and that has been on for a while.

    Can imagine the self healing PPF would be haveing better ability to work as it`s thicker. The problem can be that people expectations is to high of what it`s able to heal. For me personal it`s way cool that even the lightest defects can be healed as normal wash marring and drying marring if not to bad.

    Impressed with the Cquartz TiO2 coating as that`s almost 3 years from it. Think that this coating easly gets overlooked over CQUK. Looks wise most mentions it`s better than the at least old CQUK coating. Before Gliss came out some if not all Carpro webshops if you wanted the best of 2 worlds. A base layer with CQUK and topped with a layer of Classic TiO2. For being consumer coatings both Carpros is really great. If I`m going for a full blown ceramic coating Carpro CQUK or Tac Systems ones is high up there with what I would chose today. The Tac System UHS coating is one that`s drawing my attention a lot. Exept it`s double of the price than the TS Power Plus. UHS is a single layer coating with up to 4 years longevity and claims to have 90% silica in it and comes in a 50ml bottle vs the ones I can get Power Plus comes in a 30ml and 70% silica in it. So it depends what kind of car I would apply it on as in how long I plan to keep it.

    That sounds like a bummer to get a lot of work with the computer stuff again if you don`t like it. Hope it gets to be an easy transition to the new system.

    / Tony

  10. #475
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by SWETM View Post
    Maybe a product like Gyeon CanCoat Pro but with a shorter cure time.

    On that subject has anyone heared or used the CanCoat Pro version? Know that`s a certified only product but buzz about it?
    I asked someone about it briefly, they were less than impressed w/ Pro v Consumer versions of CanCoat. Sure don`t hear much about it anywhere...

    Quote Originally Posted by SWETM View Post
    Budgetplan: So much valueble information! Totaly agree with you on the semi-selfhealing properties from coatings on how to look at them. Maybe I`m more after how it is for the average Joe and Jane user. Say they have gotten some marring and scratches on the coating. With activate the self healing ability with hot water or heat gun or how you do it. Would it be a benefit looks wise for them so the marring and scratches gets less visible. Most of us Autopians would be reapply the coating for sure. But others would it be any benefit from how it looks as if the whiteish edges in a way get diminished? And a topper to mask it a little more and maybe added protection to the damage parts. So they can have the coating on until it`s degraded performance is such low so a reapplication is needed. Totaly understand if not possible. But if you where able to do something to activate the self healing and either taking before and after pictures or describe how you experienced it on the van/truck with miyabi/Zipang. If it where noticeble in a way or if it didn`t show any improvement at all on the defects. Sorry maybe asking to much of you. It would be very interesting to hear how it worked on a neglected paint and that has been on for a while.
    I activated it with both water and a heat gun on the truck last winter, heat gun worked better. Once I get a hold of the truck for good in a week or 2, I`ll grab the heat gun and see if it helps w/ any of the abuse the vehicle experienced this summer. One thing I know it won`t fix is a few small dimples in the hood that are now there

    Pics from last winter Zipang application and `scarring`:





    After doing the above, I realized just how hard it is to take good pictures w/ accurate representations of things. The angle of the camera, the way the light hits the surface...cellphone cameras with a light source held between my teeth is just hard to show exact duplicate representations of before/after for something like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by SWETM View Post
    Can imagine the self healing PPF would be haveing better ability to work as it`s thicker. The problem can be that people expectations is to high of what it`s able to heal. For me personal it`s way cool that even the lightest defects can be healed as normal wash marring and drying marring if not to bad.
    I`m still coming to terms with PPF, albeit car only has about 3500 miles on it since last April. While logically I know it`s tougher and more resilient than a coating, likely because of the cost and the inability to fix much myself should something major happen I kinda actually ended up treating it as more fragile than a coating. Took a while to get used to the fact that it is (or has been so far) just as resilient as a coating w/ regards to water spotting, staining and environmental contamination. Should any of those occur however, I guess it`s a warranty thing so just bring back to installer and they reapply that panel at n/c for the next 10 years.

    It did take a small hit from something, given the color transfer there when I noticed it I`m guessing a shopping cart from our local grocery store at the spot located below, put about a 1/4" tear in it and lifted it a bit on the edge but was able to trim the torn edge straight (about 1/16th of an inch trim), wet the area w/ some water and a bit of heat from a heat gun, re-seated the film flat and it is unnoticeable unless nose-to-paint and has not been an issue going forward. Whatever hit it didn`t affect the paint though, nor did it leave any lasting mark when I opened the door into a light pole once. Although it really doesn`t get touched by a towel much except for post-wash application of Cosmic Spritz, it has made it through the summer quite well, no swirls that I can find. There have been a few times where I thought I noticed a light scratch or some marring but when I go back to find it at a later date, it`s gone but don`t know whether it healed or just `went away`. All in all pleased with it. If I ever buy a new fun car again, I will consider doing it again. However, after enjoying the metallic gray Porsche for the last 3k miles and how good it looks nearly all the time, I`m done with black cars methinks...life is so much easier with a nice gray that`s coated with a quality coating.




    STEK Healing Video (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/p/BtEt1kjh...d=hs5uwos98uj0


    Quote Originally Posted by SWETM View Post
    Impressed with the Cquartz TiO2 coating as that`s almost 3 years from it. Think that this coating easly gets overlooked over CQUK. Looks wise most mentions it`s better than the at least old CQUK coating. Before Gliss came out some if not all Carpro webshops if you wanted the best of 2 worlds. A base layer with CQUK and topped with a layer of Classic TiO2. For being consumer coatings both Carpros is really great. If I`m going for a full blown ceramic coating Carpro CQUK or Tac Systems ones is high up there with what I would chose today. The Tac System UHS coating is one that`s drawing my attention a lot. Exept it`s double of the price than the TS Power Plus. UHS is a single layer coating with up to 4 years longevity and claims to have 90% silica in it and comes in a 50ml bottle vs the ones I can get Power Plus comes in a 30ml and 70% silica in it. So it depends what kind of car I would apply it on as in how long I plan to keep it.
    This one was a real quiet performer, did very,very well with no fuss, no muss. I should try the TiO2/UK combo some day. Might lose a little slickness and visually entertaining water behavior but I would guess durability would be much improved. One thing I think I remember about Gliss is that they recommend not using a tar remover on it which is usually part of my Spring clean up/refresh process. In the end though, the TiO2 more than exceeded expectations as far as staying nicely `3ft away clean and glossy` for the past 2.5 seasons. Well done, CarPro.

    Quote Originally Posted by SWETM View Post
    That sounds like a bummer to get a lot of work with the computer stuff again if you don`t like it. Hope it gets to be an easy transition to the new system.

    / Tony
    Yeah, after 25 years of mucking about with technology, I pretty much despise working with computers and software now. Was fun back in the 1990`s-2000`s when the Internet was just becoming widely available but aside from the real benefits technology provides, my interest in the development and inner-workings of them is completely gone. Transitions never go well no matter how much you plan, run in parallel and double and triple check for completeness and, like some coatings/detailing stuff, reality and mfg claims sometimes falls short of reality. Throw in users who despise new stuff simply because it`s different (even if `better`) and it`s gonna be a big PITA

    Gonna head down to Columbus next week and go through a "Enthusiast Detailing" class so that should be fun but with winter on the horizon, not much else detailing-related happening for a while...which is OK. Looking forward to trying some machines like the Rupes Mille, maybe a rotary and other stuff I don`t have access to and hoping they can also make me not hate interiors so much...a tall order indeed!

    IS it Spring yet? Was 39 degrees F when I left for work this morning...I have no idea why I stay in this climate.
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Yeah when it gets damaged the PPF I can imagine that scare you go through since the quality ones is pricey. But it did it`s thing with the scuff on the Vette. Awesome that you where able to fix it too. It`s certainly an option to do with a vehical you plan to keep for a long time.

    I`m thinking on looking for another car than the Kia cee`d SW I have. So have not got into apply a ceramic coating on it. It has a lot of damage on it sadly and got it at a good price for it cause of that. Then my interest to detailing came during that winter I bought it of course LOL. So the next car I will look as I always do on the mechanical condition of it but also the visual would be nice to have it looking great. The next car I will apply a ceramic coating on. And just hope that the one I find has not black paint LOL. Live in a part of Sweden where it`s not many people living. So the used vehical market is kind of small and the options gets lesser. On the other hand the cars used out on the country side usually has less dings and such as a city car can have. The downside is that it`s also a lot more miles on them than the city cars. But will soon start to look around and see if I`m able to find a good one.

    I hear you some just don`t like changes even if it`s for the better in the end. Yeah there is always something with the new systems that needs to be dialed in. And then it`s smart to have a backup or 2 or 3 LOL.

    Sounds awesome the Enthusiast Detailing Class! Hope you get to learn some great trix for the interior detailing. And have a lot of fun at the class!

    / Tony
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    The Polish Angel folks are promoting Cosmic Spritz with Invincible Primer as a 1 year Coating. Has anyone tried this? I have both products now and am ready to try them out.

  13. #478
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Info was very helpful. I’m not a fan of the gtech stuff I think CQUK outperforms csl and Exo maybe not right off the bat because Exo has great Initial behavior. Exo has good water behavior but fades more than anyother coating I’ve tested. Cquk is like the Tom Brady of coatings
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    So the real question is does extra bucks for the Kamikaze duo preform or look that much better?

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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by glfnaz View Post
    The Polish Angel folks are promoting Cosmic Spritz with Invincible Primer as a 1 year Coating. Has anyone tried this? I have both products now and am ready to try them out.
    Havent heard about anyone using it in that combo but sounds like you`re ready to go...
    Quote Originally Posted by T-man143 View Post
    So the real question is does extra bucks for the Kamikaze duo preform or look that much better?
    For some I`d imagine yes, other`s maybe not...for me, yes.

    While it is the best I`ve found for my needs, really splitting hairs at this point...real or imagined.

    I kinda look at the Collection as a whole which is flexible enough that I can do many things/combos and stay within the product line. 2 year, hard sharp gloss: Miyabi x 2; Tone it down, bit of a wax like glow and a touch more longevity: Miyabi x 2, ISM 1.0 x 1. Can do the same with ISM 2.0 with a bit of a more candy look. Single layer jobs can use ISM 1.0 or 2.0 depending on look/durability desired. And all of the combos with Zipang for the advantages of that.

    Throw in some Infinity Wax if I just wanna wax a car for fun without violating `coating law` and Overcoat remains the best topper/booster I`ve found.

    Given how subjective all this stuff is, it is very likely it`s all in my head but I`ve been using and trying lotsa things since 2016 and when it comes to `cars that matter` I reach for it without thinking about other things...it`s never failed to meet my expectations yet and generally exceeds them. Others probably have similar experiences with their favorite products, really no right or wrong. As for value/worth it, perceived or real, it`s far too individual a decision to make any claims one way or another.

    Find something you like and use it often!

 

 
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