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  1. #271
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vas62 View Post
    I`m still on the fence about when to apply Overcoat.
    I was thinking to apply it at the same time when applying base coat .
    Now having second thoughts to give Wolfgang some time to cure/settle on the car before doing Overcoat.
    Analogy (not exactly precise ) coming from wall painting procedure. When you prime the wall you let it dry before applying paint coat . Something similar I would imagine can be applied in case of car coating .
    But benefits of applying the same day would be absence of even a little unnoticeable scratches that may appear after washing before Overcoat .
    As I said before I`m not going to have heart attack over it so I may wait for a week after coating.

    Dunno. Maybe I`m wrong. Still have a time to think about it .
    When using one of the other Kamikaze coatings (Miyabi and/or ISM) I`d generally wait 4-6 hrs and then apply Overcoat, or the next day. Seem to recall somewhere the phrase "...a few hours after final coat" as to when to apply. Overcoat doesn`t really `react` in any way with the base coating (a` la Gyeon Booster over base coating) so it`s all probably academic. First time I ever used Overcoat was about 4 months after applying WG Uber to our cars...I look back on that day as the `trigger point` for my Kamikaze addiction.

  2. #272

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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vas62 View Post
    I`m still on the fence about when to apply Overcoat.
    I was thinking to apply it at the same time when applying base coat .
    Now having second thoughts to give Wolfgang some time to cure/settle on the car before doing Overcoat.
    Analogy (not exactly precise ) coming from wall painting procedure. When you prime the wall you let it dry before applying paint coat . Something similar I would imagine can be applied in case of car coating .
    But benefits of applying the same day would be absence of even a little unnoticeable scratches that may appear after washing before Overcoat .
    As I said before I`m not going to have heart attack over it so I may wait for a week after coating.

    Dunno. Maybe I`m wrong. Still have a time to think about it .
    Apply Overcoat after the recommended cure time for Wolfgang and before you drive the car. For example, most coatings say to let the car cure for 24 hours before driving. I wouldn’t want to mess up the coating curing process by adding more chemicals that can have unintended chemical reactions. I also doubt having Overcoat on the car is going to help you avoid any wash related scratching/marring. Overcoat doesn’t require machine polishing to remove it.

  3. #273

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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Saber732 View Post
    Apply Overcoat after the recommended cure time for Wolfgang and before you drive the car. For example, most coatings say to let the car cure for 24 hours before driving. I wouldn’t want to mess up the coating curing process by adding more chemicals that can have unintended chemical reactions. I also doubt having Overcoat on the car is going to help you avoid any wash related scratching/marring. Overcoat doesn’t require machine polishing to remove it.
    The one and only reason I bought overcoat is because of it`s superior self cleaning properties.
    As a matter of fact all this coating odyssey is because of reducing maintenance time.

    You absolutely right that no coating or any topper will prevent/protect from scratches.
    I`m comfortable with this fact and my polisher and pads always ready for action.

    Oh, and I didn`t go with full Kamikaze stuff because I already have Wolfgang ( and McKees37 ) in possession.
    I have another old german car so maybe will use on it, but again I have bottle of WDGS and it should be used somewhere too. Dilemma. LOL
    Likes BudgetPlan1 liked this post

  4. #274
    booyah's Avatar
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    What is the general rule as to how long Miyabi and ISM are good for, after first opening? I have bottles half full from almost a year ago that I used on my truck, and have another vehicle that I want to use the products on. Will it still have the same protection properties after setting that long.

    Since then has Kamikaze come out with any updated Miyabi or ISM coats, as I remember hearing about some new formulas?

    One more question can you use the Overcoat over top of the Stance Rim coating?
    2018 F-150 "Limited"
    2008 BMW 335IX

  5. #275
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by booyah View Post
    What is the general rule as to how long Miyabi and ISM are good for, after first opening? I have bottles half full from almost a year ago that I used on my truck, and have another vehicle that I want to use the products on. Will it still have the same protection properties after setting that long.

    Since then has Kamikaze come out with any updated Miyabi or ISM coats, as I remember hearing about some new formulas?

    One more question can you use the Overcoat over top of the Stance Rim coating?
    Can`t say for sure but I seem to recall that once opened, Miyabi OK for 6-9 months, ISM 6 months. As for protection properties, I dunno. I think I used some opened 9 month old Miyabi once and kinda remember it was a little tackier on application than fresh bottle although I also remember the heat and humidity of that night so maybe is was climate-related.

    They have released a V2 of ISM, the Ultimate Finish in UK has the following description although not sure if it made it to good, `ol USA yet:
    Flexible, Hydrocarbon Ceramic Coating.

    Most ceramic coatings contain solvents, immediately obvious by the strong fumes which emanate from the bottle as soon as it is opened.
    Kamikaze Collection ISM Coat V2 is different. Free from volatile organic compounds (VOCs), non-solvent based, ISM Coat blends optically clear hydrocarbons with ceramic components to provide a clear, candy-gloss shine to automotive paintwork.
    Features & Benefits:

    • Easy to apply & easy to buff off
    • Provides a candy-gloss, reflective shine
    • Lasts for 24 - 36 months
    • Repels water, dirt & grime
    • Can also be used to restore plastic trim
    • Designed to resists water spotting better than traditional ceramic coatings
    • Non-solvent based, non-flammable & VOC-free - easy to transport & environmentally safe
    • For higher gloss & increased hydrophobicity, apply a layer of Kamikaze Collection Over Coat

    Directions for use:

    • Wash & dry the vehicle
    • Machine polish to remove any paintwork blemishes prior to sealing
    • Apply a few drops of ISM Coat V2 to a cotton applicator pad
    • Using a horizontal motion, cover the panel with ISM Coat V2 before going over the same area using a vertical motion. This will ensure even & uniform coverage.
    • Allow layer to cure for around 5 minutes (less if the ambient air temperature is warm)
    • Use a soft clean microfibre buff the residue lightly
    • Using another soft clean microfibre, rebuff to produce a high, candy-gloss shine
    • For increased water-beading, gloss & longevity, finish with a layer of Kamikaze Collection Over Coat

    Technical Specification:

    • VOC-free
    • Non-solvent based
    • Non-flammable
    • Durability: 24-36 months
    • Water contact angle: 105 degrees
    • pH tolerance: 2-11
    • Thickness layer: 2 microns
    • Hardness: 3-4H (pencil scale)
    • Initial curing time: 5-30 mins depending on ambient air temperature
    • Full curing time: 7 days

    Coverage: 30ml = 1-2 car
    As for Stance, I have used Overcoat over it before with no ill effects. I have seen Miyabi used as a base for Stance as well. I recently started using Polish Angel Supersport over Stance, it works well and adds a subtle visual effect that I find pleasing, especially on the clear-coated aluminum portions of a wheel. Adds some slickness and some gloss to black painted/clearcoated sections as well.

  6. #276

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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    So yesterday I finally finished my Wolfgang/ Overcoat coating project.
    Everything went fairly well comparing to the first time some time ago.
    With that "little goes long way" phrase the trick was to figure out how little and how long.
    After that it was a breeze.
    Didn`t do much of preparation.
    My goal wasn`t to make paint perfect. It`s a daily driver in NYC and there is no way to keep it in pristine condition
    so I saved myself some frustration down the road finding that my perfect paint has some scratches already.
    The plan was to use total swirl remover followed by finishing glaze .
    Decided not to use finishing glaze.
    Saved it for the spring.

    This is after coating with uber coating before Overcoat.



    Waited about 20 hours and then applied overcoat.

    Will try to upload pics in next post. Cant do it here.

    I will try to post more pics later. Don`t know why I`m getting message about upload failed.

    I envy those people who have patience for this type of job.
    Mine is running out pretty quick.
    Next time it will be month long project. LOL Hood and front fenders one week, then maybe roof and doors and so on.
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  7. #277

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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    I don`t know the reason but autopia won`t allow me to upload more pictures.

    Will try tomorrow.

  8. #278

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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...









    Ok. So this is after applying overcoat on a dry vehicle.
    Used microfiber rectangular applicator. This way I can see how product is applied on versus towel when it`s kind of all over the towel.

    Can`t really compare gloss before/after overcoat since car was in the garage before that and this is outside and therefore
    completely different look when taking pics. But I like how it looks and that`s all I need.
    Today we have some drizzle and a little bit of shower. Not much though but so far I`m pleased how clean (dirty ?) car is. Need to see it during some heavy rain.
    Not washing it until next weekend.
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  9. #279
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    MDX done with Miyabi + ISM, June 22, 2018. I believe the only maintenance it sees is occasional run through a touchless tunnel, soap and rinse only:
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  10. #280
    rlmccarty2000's Avatar
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Can`t say for sure but I seem to recall that once opened, Miyabi OK for 6-9 months, ISM 6 months. As for protection properties, I dunno. I think I used some opened 9 month old Miyabi once and kinda remember it was a little tackier on application than fresh bottle although I also remember the heat and humidity of that night so maybe is was climate-related.

    They have released a V2 of ISM, the Ultimate Finish in UK has the following description although not sure if it made it to good, `ol USA yet:


    As for Stance, I have used Overcoat over it before with no ill effects. I have seen Miyabi used as a base for Stance as well. I recently started using Polish Angel Supersport over Stance, it works well and adds a subtle visual effect that I find pleasing, especially on the clear-coated aluminum portions of a wheel. Adds some slickness and some gloss to black painted/clearcoated sections as well.
    This is interesting and I don’t know how many people are noticing a trend. The higher end coatings are going softer. This one says “3-4H pencil scale. The more I learn about coatings the more I wonder if 9H is a good thing or even what we (detailers) should be keying on. I’m having an internal debate on dual layer coatings, which is kinda/sorta what you have when you apply Skin or Gliss over a standard coating. There is a certain amount of flex necessary for a coating not to become brittle and crack/fracture and as we want more hardness (maybe from a hype perspective) less may be ideal. I’m starting to believe a two layer system is best with a hard layer followed by a softer second layer.

  11. #281
    rlmccarty2000's Avatar
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vas62 View Post
    I don`t know the reason but autopia won`t allow me to upload more pictures.

    Will try tomorrow.
    Have you tried Tapatalk? It’s the only way I even try to upload pictures.

  12. #282

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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    So it`s two weeks since applied coating.
    Well, car still getting dirty?!! Wonder why? LOL

    On a serious note since then went once to coin wash and just used their pressure wash without touching the car with mitten or anything else.
    Mostly lower panels and rear that needed attention, otherwise all was relatively clean.
    Here in the city it`s dust that gets under the skin with keeping car clean so pressure washer would be handy.
    Two days and perfectly clean car is covered with thick layer of dust. Then few drops of water when drizzling and it`s a disaster.
    Strong rain, thunderstorm is very welcomed now after coating. LOL
    I will apply Overcoat again in two weeks or so.

    Ok. So here is the plan for winter.
    I bought this Worx Cordless Hydroshot Portable Power Cleaner.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    It will allow me to spray car by my apartment. Whenever out of the city I`ll be able to wash the car "traditional" way.
    So one full bucket of water to spray/rinse the car with that cordless thing and then McKees 914 for waterless wash after that.
    Spraying will wash out that salt,bigger chunks of dirt (hopefully) and rest will be wiped out with McKees.
    I will be going to coin wash place untill they shut it down for winter.
    Actually I will have to compare what pressure this cordless thing have comparing to that self service wash.
    If it`s the same or slightly lower I`ll be using this one.
    Going to be delivered next week.

    By the way I wish NY metropolitan area has more real touchless car washes. I can`t find any close to me. Somewhere on the other side of Brooklyn, then maybe somewhere else.
    Try to search for it and it gives you list of "touchless" car washes which in reality still touching your car with drying dirty rugs or some soft brushes or something else.
    Just ridiculous.
    Hand car wash even worse than automated since they drag the dirt with same washing rugs all over the car scratching it.
    Nobody gives a crap.
    Only in NY.

    LOL

  13. #283

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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    Have you tried Tapatalk? It’s the only way I even try to upload pictures.
    The size of pix was too big.
    Just compressed it a little bit and everything was fine.

  14. #284
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    This is interesting and I dont know how many people are noticing a trend. The higher end coatings are going softer. This one says 3-4H pencil scale. The more I learn about coatings the more I wonder if 9H is a good thing or even what we (detailers) should be keying on. Im having an internal debate on dual layer coatings, which is kinda/sorta what you have when you apply Skin or Gliss over a standard coating. There is a certain amount of flex necessary for a coating not to become brittle and crack/fracture and as we want more hardness (maybe from a hype perspective) less may be ideal. Im starting to believe a two layer system is best with a hard layer followed by a softer second layer.
    Maybe coating mfg are tiring of trumpeting `hardness` as a positive attribute and it`s time for them to focus on something else. Hardness, IMO anyway, is waaaay overrated, be it your standard `9H` or the vaunted "Diamond Infused 10H hardness"

    As for myself, although I`ve only used Skin as a `dedicated topcoat" with Syncro, I question the `add-on` topcoats as far as longevity goes. The Skin component of Syncro is very entertaining at first but has faded somewhat quickly given the mfg claims of longevity. CarPro quickly came out with V2 of Gliss, my guess after some less than desirable aspects of V1 came to light. Not sure about one of the favorite topcoats, Gtechnic EXO, as I`ve never used it. Now, in the case of Gliss & EXO, it`s easy enough to refresh/re-apply those but in the case of Syncro, Skin is not sold separately so becomes a bit of an issue.

    With regards to Kamikaze, while either can be used alone, the `top application` is Myabi x 2 + ISM x 1. Miyabi has a hardness 8-9H (pencil scale) and a water contact angle of only 95 degrees while ISM is described as a "Flexible, Hydrocarbon Ceramic Coating" with a Water contact angle of 105 degrees and hardness rating of 3-4H (pencil scale). Whatever it is, seems to excel in self-cleaning.

    Eh, maybe all coatings are `somewhat flexible`; your post reminded me to check on the IGL Quartz I poured into a cap either last week or 2 weeks ago. Although hardened, it`s still flexible...up to a point: IGL QUARTZ - https://youtu.be/Iqsn5EhemO0
    Thanks rlmccarty2000, VitreousHumor thanked for this post

  15. #285
    rlmccarty2000's Avatar
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    Re: Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Maybe coating mfg are tiring of trumpeting `hardness` as a positive attribute and it`s time for them to focus on something else. Hardness, IMO anyway, is waaaay overrated, be it your standard `9H` or the vaunted "Diamond Infused 10H hardness"

    As for myself, although I`ve only used Skin as a `dedicated topcoat" with Syncro, I question the `add-on` topcoats as far as longevity goes. The Skin component of Syncro is very entertaining at first but has faded somewhat quickly given the mfg claims of longevity. CarPro quickly came out with V2 of Gliss, my guess after some less than desirable aspects of V1 came to light. Not sure about one of the favorite topcoats, Gtechnic EXO, as I`ve never used it. Now, in the case of Gliss & EXO, it`s easy enough to refresh/re-apply those but in the case of Syncro, Skin is not sold separately so becomes a bit of an issue.

    With regards to Kamikaze, while either can be used alone, the `top application` is Myabi x 2 + ISM x 1. Miyabi has a hardness 8-9H (pencil scale) and a water contact angle of only 95 degrees while ISM is described as a "Flexible, Hydrocarbon Ceramic Coating" with a Water contact angle of 105 degrees and hardness rating of 3-4H (pencil scale). Whatever it is, seems to excel in self-cleaning.

    Eh, maybe all coatings are `somewhat flexible`; your post reminded me to check on the IGL Quartz I poured into a cap either last week or 2 weeks ago. Although hardened, it`s still flexible...up to a point: IGL QUARTZ - https://youtu.be/Iqsn5EhemO0
    I would love to have a few manufacturers back off of the hardness claims and discuss (openly) the pros and cons of hardness. I feel much of this stuff is done on the fly and trying to be the first to market is beating actual testing (uh CarPro) and we get to be the beta testers.

    A major problem (Im finding) is most of the R&D is being done outside the US so there is a huge language problem. Trying to discuss or ask questions to a non-English speaker (native) can be very frustrating. The translation comes across as you take, you like. Im not slamming non-English speakers at all as I only speak a few words of Japanese/Korean despite living on Okinawa and working in S. Korea. We (Americans) expect everyone to speak English, which is nonsensical.


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