Are coatings flexible?

[allenk4]

Great to hear a manufacturers input

Welcome to the Forum Andy

[TroyScherer]

This is great topic.

The question that comes to mind is that if these "coatings" are 9h or what ever "harder" means does this then restrict the paint in its expansion and contraction and does this then create other issues down the road.

It makes me think that Opti might be the best option since the good Dr specializes in car paint and such.

[donbeezy]

so i was thinking last night "if i had a coating, how would i test it?"

would applying a coating to say foil paper? let it harden/cure then maybe peeling the foil paper backwards? if a coating is so hard, it would retain the shape of the foil paper once was. if nothing is standing by itself, it was flexible with the foil paper.

maybe im just being silly

[Mike lambert]

I just thought that with the massive expansion of the coating industry in the last couple of years, it was an interesting thought?

[RaskyR1]

i asked that question in a previous thread and i think i offended some coating pros here but it just made me think so hard i had to ask.

the last podcast made me think too... water spots only appearing after you heat it up with an infrared light? would that mean whoever did the compound/polish did not do a good enough job of perfecting the paint?

and are these podcast with larry and kevin really an attack on coatings? im sure they arent but it just seems that way

I think you need to listen to it again. This is simply an issue that some installers have come across, including me. The thought or belief is that the spots were originally formed on a very hot day while the paint was in an expanded (hot) state. After the paint had cooled and contracted the spots were no longer visible. When the cars come in for paint correction there are no visible spots at any time during the prep, correction, wipe down, or coating. It`s only when then panel was being heated with IR to cure the coating that the spots start to appear. On the car I did it was only 3 panels were these appeared and not the whole car. The belief is that the coating fills in the pores when it`s in that expanded state so that when it cools again the spots a remain. The idea of polishing the paint when it was heated was to remove the spots while it`s in that expanded state.

I`ve been coating cars for 6 year now and Audi is the only car I`ve had this happen on, not something you come across very often. Here are a couple before pics of the panels that spots appeared on....see any spots?





After polishing

[RaskyR1]

As I recuperate from back surgery, I have had the chance to listen to a lot of podcasts involving Kevin Brown. He brings up the fact that paint is a structure which is flexible and as such expands and contracts with temperature changes. Which make me think with all this time on my hands, are coatings flexing also? Modesta shows how hard it is by showing cubes of products, all kinds of claims of 9h hardness and the ever popular lighter strikes. So if they are that hard, are they still flexing with the paint? How would you tell? Just thinking!

I think we would have seen issues by now if the coatings weren`t flexible enough for their application. As noted above, a think 1-3 micron layer vs. a solid cube is a big difference.

[donbeezy]

Thank you Rasky for the explanation. Glad someone here has ran into that issue to give us insight.

[RaskyR1]

Thank you Rasky for the explanation. Glad someone here has ran into that issue to give us insight.

Joseph (Jsmooth) and a few others on here have come across it too. Sounds like quite a few Tesla`s have had the issue.

[Envious Eric]

Ive had it happen on 4 straight black cars a few weeks ago

two lexus, a bmw, and a cadillac

I polished with a D300/orange combo and the finish was completely clear of defects, then we polished it out to damn near perfect. Two shots of eraser, then 2 layers of Finest. Put the IR lamp on it and BAM, water spots all over the heated section. Moved the IR lamp to a different section, and more spots appeared. I was blown away and lost a $1800 job because even though I did the 3 step correction, I couldn`t charge for the condition of the paint in the end.

So, on the next few black cars, and every black/whatever color car comes in with water spots, we do a complete correction, then IR lamp the panel prior to proceeding with the rest of the car. Just a precaution, but it has saved me 3 more wasted efforts.

[allenk4]

I too listened to the Podcast.

None of this makes sense to me.


If the water that left the minerals behind was applied while the paint was hot and theoretically "expanded"; why would the water spot magically disappear when the paint was cooled and theoretically "contracted".

Aren`t water spots actually damage to the clear coat? So expansion and contraction should only make the spot microscopically larger or smaller.


I would be be interested to see a more detailed description of the scenario where paint was measured while hot and then cold, with the hot measurement being thicker than the cool measurement.


The Defelsko meters are accurate to +/- (1/10 of a mil +3%), but in my experience, even trying to measure the exact same spot often yields different numbers.

[allenk4]

Envious Eric,

Please help us answer this Mystery.

Apply your IR to your freshly polished panels, prior to coating to see if the spots re-appear.


This is will eliminate the coating as the Culprit.



.