Coating Durability - Are U Getting What MFG`s Are Promising?

[tom p.]

I didn`t purchase RELOAD until my original application of CQ UK was just about 1 yr old. Beading was clearly falling off but certainly not gone when it hit 12 months. I regard the RELOAD spray as a refresher of the CQ UK - - it`s supposed to contain the same compound. I personally don`t view it as a "topper". To me, it`s analogous to the Sonus Acrylic Spritz that was used with Klasse SG. It refreshed the basic protection of the Klasse sealant with the same chemical.

So, if I have to spend twenty minutes once or twice a year to apply RELOAD, that doesn`t upset me. Does it obscure the underlying durability of the CQ UK? Sure.

My primary focus is keeping my vehicles looking their absolute best with the least amount of effort. For my personal situation, CQ coating + RELOAD + regular de-con (RESET) is the best solution I`ve experienced to date. The cars have never looked better - nothing has come close. If "we" arrive at the point that these coatings don`t last more than a year, and the entire process needs to be re-started, I`d likely return to traditional sealant products.

I`ve also gone thru Duragloss Enviroshield which I wrote about in another thread. I`ve since given it a 2nd chance on a different vehicle and it`s at about 6 months. I`ve also got OptiGloss and the Pinnacle coating on the same car. Far too early to make any statements apart from the fact that nothing beads like fresh CQ UK...if that means anything

David F, what happened to your rolling test bed??? The Ford Fusion??

[WillWashesCars]

IMHO a true coating shouldn`t need a topper. Heck, they should be able to withstand washing with harsh cleaners and it shouldn`t affect it`s performance. I`d be interested to know how some of these "coatings" last if you didn`t baby them? You know a real torture test and I don`t mean trying to scratch them with lighters.

I respect everything David ever has to say, but I am going to disagree to an extent.

SiO2 based coatings will loose their hydrophobic properties when exposed to heavy alkaline cleaners. This is just the nature of the beast, but this doesn`t mean the coating isn`t there, nor does it mean the coating isn`t protecting.

Hydrophobic coatings do bead nicely, this is a reward to the end user. Makes maintenance easier and also makes the car look "protected." Much like how foaming hand soaps won`t necessarily clean better, but the foam is a reward to the end user. Also like how many tooth pastes contain citric acid or other chemicals to cause that "fresh clean feeling." They are rewards, but aren`t necessary to the ultimate goal. Coatings offer protecting in hardness (not 9H in mineral, 9H in pencil), but also in flexibility and as a sacrificial layer. Many times, a coating may no longer bead, but it can still protect by taking the beating in scratches and micromarring that will not effect the base coat underneath.

But off an assumption, I would guess that the "coatings" you installed are not beading nor are they there anymore. It takes a very proper installation to maximize the protection and longevity of any true coating. Otherwise, the coating is so thin and also improperly crossbonded to the point where it will flake and fail. But flaking happens on a 1-2 micron scale, you will never see this with your own eyes. Even 3 microns is so thin, the human eyes won`t ever see it physically fail.

That`s just my 2 cents.

[tom p.]

SiO2 based coatings will loose their hydrophobic properties when exposed to heavy alkaline cleaners. This is just the nature of the beast, but this doesn`t mean the coating isn`t there, nor does it mean the coating isn`t protecting.

^^^This is the piece that worries me too. Many of us, myself included, are probably too quick to declare the (coating, sealant, wax, etc.) has failed when, in deed, it has not and is still very much on the job. Since most end consumers have no means of gaging this, we are probably too quick to declare that beading = protection and vice versa, Will.

[SonOfOC]

The biggest factor in coating durability besides the proper application and maintenance is the weather and if the vehicle is garaged or not. It is not uncommon for outdoor California coated vehicles to last 24 months outdoors. Indoor coated vehicles can go way beyond that.

[RaskyR1]

I`ve seen them both fail (beading wise) and also live up to manufactures claims. Region, environment, and weather that the vehicles are subject to all seem to play a roll in performance, but mostly how well it`s cared for. All of them seem to loose beading down low behind the wheels after about 6 months, at least in my region.

I`ve had OCP looking good and lasting over 2 years on my car and I`ve also seen it have zero beading on a clients car after 6 months (twice). I`ve seen CQF and 22ple performing very well near the 2 year mark and I`ve also seen all 3 (OCP, CQF, 22ple) fail miserably (Beading wise) on my test pans left outside and untouched for 8-9 months. No amount of decon would bring life back to either of them.

I love coatings, but I feel they should be marketed as 2-3yrs protection max and clients need to be well aware that regular washing is key.

IMHO a true coating shouldn`t need a topper. Heck, they should be able to withstand washing with harsh cleaners and it shouldn`t affect it`s performance. I`d be interested to know how some of these "coatings" last if you didn`t baby them? You know a real torture test and I don`t mean trying to scratch them with lighters.

I would agree, but as mentioned above by Troy, even the great OCP has their own OCP+ topper now and installers have been topping it with various products for quite some to help against water spots.

[LostHighway]

IMHO a true coating shouldn`t need a topper. Heck, they should be able to withstand washing with harsh cleaners and it shouldn`t affect it`s performance. I`d be interested to know how some of these "coatings" last if you didn`t baby them? You know a real torture test and I don`t mean trying to scratch them with lighters.

Opti-Coat has the best resistance to alkaline (pH ≥12) and acidic (pH≤3) chemicals (some "coatings" are crap in this regard) among coatings in all the the information I`ve seen but it doesn`t have the best water behavior or, more arguably, the best look. I see no problem with a topper designed to alter look, water behavior or durability provided that it is easy to apply, doesn`t bring along other negatives and is not massively expensive. People who top coatings with conventional waxes are, IMO, completely daft but that is a subject for a different thread. We live in an imperfect world full of compromises. I think this "if they need toppers they are no good" argument is making the ideal/perfect the enemy of the good.

[Swanicyouth]

I coated the roof and bumpers of my Pathfinder 2 years ago with OC 2.0.

- For whatever reason, the OC on the bumpers lost their hydrophobic nature pretty quick. So, been using wax there.

- The roof is still super hydrophobic. No toppers, but a quick detailer every few months. It`s quite obvious the coating is still going strong there.

Coating longevity - it seems to be a crap shoot.

One thing nobody seams to address, is if you live in a snow region - How does road salt effect these coatings? I`m speculating it killed my OC on the bumpers, but since little gets on the roof - no issue there.

Everyone talks about pH - but when would a coated car see an extreme pH environment??? Dunno about you guys, but my cars are washed with soap - not APC or acid. So, to me - the pH thing is irrelevant.

I`ve seen them both fail (beading wise) and also live up to manufactures claims. Region, environment, and weather that the vehicles are subject to all seem to play a roll in performance, but mostly how well it`s cared for. All of them seem to loose beading down low behind the wheels after about 6 months, at least in my region.

I`ve had OCP looking good and lasting over 2 years on my car and I`ve also seen it have zero beading on a clients car after 6 months (twice). I`ve seen CQF and 22ple performing very well near the 2 year mark and I`ve also seen all 3 (OCP, CQF, 22ple) fail miserably (Beading wise) on my test pans left outside and untouched for 8-9 months. No amount of decon would bring life back to either of them.

I love coatings, but I feel they should be marketed as 2-3yrs protection max and clients need to be well aware that regular washing is key.

Curious why you think that coatings should be marketed with 2-3 years of protection - when you`ve seen them fail in 6 mos to a year? I know you know what your doing - so the prep isn`t in question here...

So, when it fails behind wheel wells in 8 mos - who is to blame? It has to be the product.

[RaskyR1]

I coated the roof and bumpers of my Pathfinder 2 years ago with OC 2.0.

- For whatever reason, the OC on the bumpers lost their hydrophobic nature pretty quick. So, been using wax there.

- The roof is still super hydrophobic. No toppers, but a quick detailer every few months. It`s quite obvious the coating is still going strong there.

Coating longevity - it seems to be a crap shoot.

One thing nobody seams to address, is if you live in a snow region - How does road salt effect these coatings? I`m speculating it killed my OC on the bumpers, but since little gets on the roof - no issue there.

Everyone talks about pH - but when would a coated car see an extreme pH environment??? Dunno about you guys, but my cars are washed with soap - not APC or acid. So, to me - the pH thing is irrelevant.



Curious why you think that coatings should be marketed with 2-3 years of protection - when you`ve seen them fail in 6 mos to a year? I know you know what your doing - so the prep isn`t in question here...

So, when it fails behind wheel wells in 8 mos - who is to blame? It has to be the product.

I say that because I think it`s real world expectation. The majority of the clients I see come back within 2 years have swirled up cars becuase they simply don`t want to put in the time to care for them properly.

Lets be clear that I`ve only had one vehicle completely fail to bead (2 times) after 6 months, this was definitely not the norm. I could tell something was still there, but regardless of what I did (IronX, Tarminator, clay) it would not bead water. The first time I coated the car it was right from the dealer to me. It was polished with Hyper Polish and wiped down with an Optimum beta prep solution given to me. The owner admittedly never hand washed it and maybe took it through a touch-less wash once or twice during that time. It was also right in the middle of winter. At around the 6 month point I re-polished the car with Optimum Primer Polish and re-coated the whole car. After another 6 months I had the same outcome. This time around I re-polished and coated with CQF and had hoped I would get to see it again, but he`s since traded the car in for a new M4. Given how he cares for it I would have expected CQF to have the same outcome. I don`t want to say the coatings have completely failed, as you can tell something is there, but for whatever reason they loose the ability to bead when not cared for regularly.

With the exception of a few clients who actually follow the car care I outline, all the other clients I`ve had coming back in have all been swirled pretty badly, which is mainly why I say they should be marketed as 2-3 year coatings. They have all held up pretty well beading wise, though the lowers are all still flat. The below pics are of a black Phaeton I coated exactly one year prior and this is how it looked when he came in for a touch-up. He said it had only seen touch-less washes, but it had been in for service too.

After major correction and coating 5/14


How it arrived again on 5/15




So after spending $1500, the above is what he gets after 1 year.

[silverfox]

I started questioning coatings once the marketing machines told us you should apply special coating toppers to prolong the coatings and special soaps to wash them....and after all that BS, you still get underwhelming longevity on lower body panels and salted areas, and underwhelming protection against swirls. The ONLY advantage I`ve seen is easier washing and drying ..and longer washing intervals required.

[Swanicyouth]

I started questioning coatings once the marketing machines told us you should apply special coating toppers to prolong the coatings and special soaps to wash them....and after all that BS, you still get underwhelming longevity on lower body panels and salted areas, and underwhelming protection against swirls. The ONLY advantage I`ve seen is easier washing and drying ..and longer washing intervals required.

This sums it up pretty perfectly. My opinion is any LSP (including coatings) starts degrading after day 1, so I`d rather just use something that is easily and readily renewable - instead of watching the coating go through the death throes.

This probably because we get a ton of snow and salt where I live and nothing seems impervious to it.

[kbmag1]

Agree with the 2 preceeding posts. Maybe my expectations are to high. Coating life span seems about half of what was advertised (4 different coatings). Two of the coated cars are outside 24/7, the other two are not. All of the verticle panels have held up well, the horizontal panels seam "die" off. Maybe the Florida sun is to brutal.

[PinnacleAutoCT]

My family has two single stage Volvos in white (940 and 740). Both sit outside every day on a gravel driveway. I regularly lightly polish one and then top it with Sonax Polymer Net Shield. This car`s protection/beading typically starts to degrade significantly around the four month mark, at this point the paint is also showing signs of oxidation (despite some ONR washes and mild toppers, IE UQW). The other was polished and coated nine months ago with two coats of CQuartz UK, since then it was literally washed only once with a foam cannon and Chemical Guys Glossworks, then I topped it with Meguiar`s UQW (only adds two weeks of protection). Two days ago I inspected the car and the horizontal surfaces were finally showing signs of degradation in beading (BUT, the car was filthy). I washed it and applied Hydro 2 and the coating literally beads as it did when I applied it. The REAL proof in the durability and positive characteristics of the coating, however, is demonstrated by the fact that the single stage paint didn`t oxidize one bit during that nine month period while it was exposed to dirt, pollen, sunlight, bird droppings etc etc and was only washed once. This car has been in my family for twelve years now, and I have never seen anything prevent oxidation, provide that extreme ease in cleanup, etc etc.

I guess my point is that although coatings aren`t perfect and can`t protect against marring from truly bad wash routines, they do provide valuable protection and make maintenance much easier.

[David Fermani]

Are you talking about Opti-Coat Pro? Or maybe its new "topper" Pro+......


Stirs the pot and walks away.....

I`m referring to ANY coating. Chemical resistance is one of the critical components that separates coatings from waxes/sealants.

David F, what happened to your rolling test bed??? The Ford Fusion??

I ended up turning the vehicle in on its lease about 2 years after coating it and it was still beading, looking & protecting like it did from day one. And, only the hood was polished. I simply decon`d the rest of the car and applied the coating. I also coated my wife`s black Town & Country van shortly after my Fusion and it`s still going strong to this day. Both cars were washed with Dawn and taken through the touchless washes.

I respect everything David ever has to say, but I am going to disagree to an extent.

SiO2 based coatings will loose their hydrophobic properties when exposed to heavy alkaline cleaners. This is just the nature of the beast, but this doesn`t mean the coating isn`t there, nor does it mean the coating isn`t protecting.

And to me, that is a huge downfall. I instruct my coating clients to take their vehicles through touchless washes which use pretty harsh cleaners. This is a great selling point as the paint finish won`t get marred and will stay looking great for many years. If a coating can`t withstand these types of scenarios then that is a major turn off. I could never bring myself to tell my client that they need to periodically apply a booster product to their coating to rejuvinate it. To me, that`s not a whole lot different from dealer applied paint sealants that require reapplication every 6-12 months.

I would agree, but as mentioned above by Troy, even the great OCP has their own OCP+ topper now and installers have been topping it with various products for quite some to help against water spots.

OPT`s topper is only applied at the time the initial coating is applied. I`ve never seen OPT ever instructing someone to reapply or top one of their coatings anytime after the coating has cured? Yet, I`m under the impression that this is the prescription that other coating companies instruct as regular coating maintenance. I`ve never topped a single coating job to date (both in Michigan & Florida) and don`t plan on doing so. I also don`t plan on using OCP+ either.

[tom p.]

I ended up turning the vehicle in on its lease about 2 years after coating it and it was still beading, looking & protecting like it did from day one. And, only the hood was polished. I simply decon`d the rest of the car and applied the coating. I also coated my wife`s black Town & Country van shortly after my Fusion and it`s still going strong to this day. Both cars were washed with Dawn and taken through the touchless washes.

Thanks for the reply, David. I don`t know how much more anyone could expect from a product of this type!

[RaskyR1]

I ended up turning the vehicle in on its lease about 2 years after coating it and it was still beading, looking & protecting like it did from day one. And, only the hood was polished. I simply decon`d the rest of the car and applied the coating. I also coated my wife`s black Town & Country van shortly after my Fusion and it`s still going strong to this day. Both cars were washed with Dawn and taken through the touchless washes.

What about all the water spots it had on it? I thought I recall you saying it was nailed by the lawn sprinklers?

On that note, what the heck happened to your durability thread? It`s been sliced and diced and/or seems all messed up from the migration.