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  1. #31

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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    Quote Originally Posted by JSFM35X View Post
    I agree that for a regular joe who waxes his car once a year wax is where it`s at. For anyone who takes detailing seriously or cares about protection. I think wax it dead for someone like myself who values his fee time. Why decon, clay, polish and wax only to have to repeat in 3-6 weeks when I can extend the protection 2 plus years ? That my point and again my opinion. If you like wax, be my guest and wax on my good friend.
    Decon, clay, polish every 3-6 weeks? If that`s been your process, no wonder you like coating!! I`m with swanicyouth for all his reasons.
    Likes Junebug liked this post

  2. #32
    Detailing Gnosis Bunky's Avatar
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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    Some have taken coatings to be treated like paint with a requirement for even more layers of sacrificial products: detail sprays. It never ends.

    Al
    The Need to Bead


  3. #33

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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    Waxes don`t last that why I reapply so often. I was using p21s 100%. Waxes hold dirt and debris. Re waxing on top of contamination look like hell to me. Ever see a girl who put nail polish over nail polish. Yuch. It a mess and I don`t do mess. When I was waxing and I did for years I would always wash mad clay then quick polish to remove any micro marring and wax. This was before there were iron removal products.

    Not with coatings I extend out all the labor intense stuff because the coatings last so long.

    To each their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade9 View Post
    Decon, clay, polish every 3-6 weeks? If that`s been your process, no wonder you like coating!! I`m with swanicyouth for all his reasons.

  4. #34

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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    I cannot not disagree with anything you said as a statement in general. It just is not what I am after.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Reasons why coatings and/or seal might not be the best approach:

    -No concealing (not every finish can be corrected well enough for the coating, or a sealant, to look OK)
    -Difficulties regarding spot-correction (including the need to relayer with multiple-coat-type sealants such as KSG)
    -Subjective factors (appearance, beading vs. sheeting, scent, slickness, etc.)
    -Time/effort/cost/requisite application skill

    Note that I`m no coating-hater, I use one on certain wheels. I`m no sealant-hater, I use one (FK1000P) on most of my vehicles. But I can`t do any more correction on the `85 Jag (not *bad* for single stage of its age) or the `93 Audi (simply awful condition due to original owner and its dark blue that shows every flaw) so those need concealing, and most sealants don`t look right *in my eyes* on those cars anyhow.

    Hey, give me a sealant that conceals and gives depth/jetting on dark colors and I`ll use it on that Audi. Give me one that conceals and looks right on older single stage and I`ll use it on the Jag. Give me an Accumulator-proof coating that`s as easy to use as my current stuff, conceals marring, looks "right for the vehicle" in my eyes, and allows for easy spot-correction and I`d probably use it on everything ifit offered advantages over FK1000P. But I don`t see any of my current LSPs as being deficient in any way for their applicatons, so why would I change? What am I missing by not using a coating instead of FK1000P? What am I missing by using a wax instead of a sealant on the vehicles that get that? Hey, those are serious Qs, give me some reasons! I might not change, but I`d enjoy discussing it.

  5. #35

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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    My 24x7 daily driver sits outside and has had 30k mile added to it since the EXO v2 was applied. The car still looks amazing and clens easily. It just lost some beading. Before the winter I was going to winterized it but decided the just Permanon it until after the winter as I decide what to use on it. Sadly the Permanon was short lived either because the product is not designed to bond to. A coating or it is just gone in a few months.

    The car cleans easily just tough to dry when the beads don`t blow off.

    My issue it I go through the whole rigamarole for re waxing as I do re coating because if I don`t I can see the difference. Which I did not see the difference just like I wish I did not hear the difference in audio equipment.

    If you like waxes, use them. If you have never tried a coating. Find someone near you and at least look. Once you have tried both use what you want. I make the exact same amount of money no matter which you choose. So to me, your happiness it my ultimate concern. Mike Philips sells and uses it all, and I love his slogan whatever you use, use often.

    Enjoy your day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swanicyouth View Post
    I prolly don`t value my free time, because I`m more than willing to spend it waxing. If you go through all the prep steps initially - you only have to top off the wax with a new coat maybe once a month (at most); but, there is no need to re-polish, decon, and clay at that time - just wash and apply another coat of wax. Takes maybe a half hour or so (depending on wax).

    I don`t think any coated car approaching 2 years since application will look as good as one just waxed. Of course, the coating really doesn`t last 730 days, it`s degrading the whole time. So is wax. The difference is - wax is easily and readily renewable - where you have to go through a whole rigmarole with a coating.

  6. #36

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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    I agree, and I let the coating stand on their own. If I am topping it I feel I purchased the wrong coating. To me the coating should achieve excellent hydrophobic abilities, for an extended time and add or just display the polished paintwork below.

    The topping of coatings is a profit maker for the industry and there nothing wrong with that, I just don`t buy into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunky View Post
    Some have taken coatings to be treated like paint with a requirement for even more layers of sacrificial products: detail sprays. It never ends.

  7. #37
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    Quote Originally Posted by JSFM35X View Post
    I agree that for a regular joe who waxes his car once a year wax is where it`s at. For anyone who takes detailing seriously or cares about protection. I think wax it dead for someone like myself who values his fee time. Why decon, clay, polish and wax only to have to repeat in 3-6 weeks when I can extend the protection 2 plus years ? That my point and again my opinion. If you like wax, be my guest and wax on my good friend.

    .
    It`s not that I like or prefer wax (or sealants for that matter), I actually prefer coating all my personal cars. I just think that it could take decades for coatings to take over the protection market.

    In retrospect, speaking of the word "coatings", I think it`s becoming more and more of a buzz word that several companies are using to trick people into thinking inaccurately about what their product actually is. Optimum basically kick started the coating popularity in the US and claimed permanent protection (now 5 years). After that, other contenders came out with their "coating" but were quite different in many ways from what OPT had created. And the main difference is longevity. they claimed theirs would last 2 years and tend to push boosters to help this happen. Now, I can`t help see other companies bringing in their "coating" and claiming it should last 6 months to a year. What will be next? A product called a coating that will come in a can and look like a paste wax? (sarcasm)
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

  8. #38
    Detailing Gnosis Bunky's Avatar
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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    The market will change when automakers apply coatings at the factory. Of course, the detailing industry will respond. Coatings have a bad name now because all the dealer applied paint protection products. The good news is people will always wash their cars improperly so there is still is always the detailing business.

    Al
    The Need to Bead


  9. #39
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunky View Post
    Coatings have a bad name now because all the dealer applied paint protection products.
    If anything it`s the other way around.
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

  10. #40

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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    Quote Originally Posted by JSFM35X View Post
    I cannot not disagree with anything you said as a statement in general. It just is not what I am after.
    And that subjective element makes all the difference IMO! Since none of this stuff is life-and-death critical, it`s all about whatever makes ya happy.

    I am curious about just what, specifically, you meant by "not what I am after"...hard for me to pinpoint it since I brought up so many things! As I said, I find this an interesting discussion, especially since different people value different things.

  11. #41

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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    So what am I after?

    I want max durability with tight beading and an optically accurate reflection that is as distortion free as possible.

    I like a coating that is self cleaning to the greatest extent possible to make maintenance washes easy and allow rain to give it a good rinsing. Also makes tar and bird bombs easy to remove.

    I want it to be as easy to apply as possible and not be priced to crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    And that subjective element makes all the difference IMO! Since none of this stuff is life-and-death critical, it`s all about whatever makes ya happy.

    I am curious about just what, specifically, you meant by "not what I am after"...hard for me to pinpoint it since I brought up so many things! As I said, I find this an interesting discussion, especially since different people value different things.

  12. #42

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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    JSFM35X- Thanks for explaining! Those sound like the kind of characteristics that sold me on the FK1000P, though it won`t last (quite) as long as a good coating. I often get by with just a rinsing (as opposed to a regular wash) and I no longer bother to clean off bird-bombs as they`ve never etched through that product (famous last words, probably jinx myself if I keep posting that).

    I`m right there with you about wanting something that`s easy/Accumulator-proof and doesn`t need redone every few months! Hope you find the perfect product for ya.
    Likes JSFM35X liked this post

  13. #43

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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    Quote Originally Posted by JSFM35X View Post
    Waxes don`t last that why I reapply so often. I was using p21s 100%. Waxes hold dirt and debris. Re waxing on top of contamination look like hell to me. Ever see a girl who put nail polish over nail polish. Yuch. It a mess and I don`t do mess. When I was waxing and I did for years I would always wash mad clay then quick polish to remove any micro marring and wax. This was before there were iron removal products.

    Not with coatings I extend out all the labor intense stuff because the coatings last so long.

    To each their own.
    To each his own is right. Waxes don`t last, but they last long enough for most of us. I`m sure most will agree that waxes re-applied after a good wash don`t "look like hell", and certainly not a "mess". Careful washing is key.

    When you do decon-clay-polish every 3 weeks, yes that is certainly labor-intensive and would take the fun out of all of this. It looks like coating is targeted at people like you. And yes it always comes down to it being to each his own. Like Accumulator said, this is not life-or-death critical, and it`s not even remotely important in the grand scheme of things. My wife and family would start to laugh when I start talking about this stuff.

  14. #44

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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    Thanks

    Truthfully, I am pretty happy with EXO. Not sure why there`s not more of it posted on the forums. I don`t work for them btw but it gives me almOst what I want but I still want more durability. If it lasted 3 years, I`d want 4. Thats my problem. Good enough never is. Plus I enjoy trying new products as they prove not to be snake oil.

    Opticoat 2.0 was good as well. Just no slickness is my only peeve. I like to touch the car with the back of my hand and feel a slick surface.( ya I`m weird) I like beads over sheeting.

    Have a good afternoon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    JSFM35X- Thanks for explaining! Those sound like the kind of characteristics that sold me on the FK1000P, though it won`t last (quite) as long as a good coating. I often get by with just a rinsing (as opposed to a regular wash) and I no longer bother to clean off bird-bombs as they`ve never etched through that product (famous last words, probably jinx myself if I keep posting that).

    I`m right there with you about wanting something that`s easy/Accumulator-proof and doesn`t need redone every few months! Hope you find the perfect product for ya.

  15. #45
    JAFO Junebug's Avatar
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    Re: Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

    I thought about coatings and I`m just not sold on them. Why? Well, from my research it seems you need to buy a special cleaner to prep the paint, then there is the application process with special techniques and pads, then there is the weather, curing, and then there are the booster - either QD or wash or both. If you add up the costs and figure the learning curve, it`s a turn off for guys like me, you know, keep it simple Sam.
    I was a sealer guy and loved BFWD and Menzies PL, and looking to try Prima Epic, but, I can`t dismiss how good my car looks when I use Pinnacle Souveran, CG 50-50, or AGHD. I am seriously considering Collinite 915, supposed to last and look good. The thing that is holding me back is I tried their liquid wax and hated it.
    All I have in this world is my word, and my balls and I don`t break `em for no one, you understand?"
    Likes GearHead_1, JSFM35X liked this post

 

 
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