OEM Paint cure times

[Jesstzn]

A question came up in another thread about waxing/sealing OEM paint and how soon is it safe to do so.



Common answer is "As soon as you take delivery" because it is already cured.



The reason I am posting this is as most you know I like justification. Well I asked for justification on these statements.



Posters comments are in black and the questioned comments are in blue.

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Evidently, paint from the factory is baked on. So you can just about wax/polish right away! However, when you get re-painting at an auto body

shop they use a different procedure and that`s when you should wait 90 days or so to wax.



6 months minimum from build date. Right you are paint dries in 45 minutes from beign shot.

HOWEVER the clearcoat takes approximately 3-6 month depending where thr car is shipped to cold to hot weather .

Even though its baked at 165 it still takes time.to fully cure.





Evidently, paint from the factory is baked on. So you can just about wax/polish right away! However, when you get re-painting at an auto body

shop they use a different procedure and that`s when you should wait 90 days or so



Wrong. You don`t wax a new paint job.factory or repaint.

If you use a good enough sealer you can and will cause solvent pop.

Let me tell you something about detailing forums.

Most are noobs and most never painted.

You must understand all aspects of paint.in order to fully know how to perfect.

For example I can`t tell you how many seasoned detailers I`ve proved wrong over the years such as saying you can`t paint perfect with a single action rotary.

Or chemical x is better than chemical y.

Or whatever it may be.

Fact is they don`t deal with the makers.so they don`t know it all.





All factory paint is cured long before you get it. Wax/polish right away.



Wrong.sorry don`t get mad but definitely wrong.

This is from the makers themselves.

Don`t believe I know you never do.but its not fully cured from the factory.





This is from the makers themselves.



i`ll call you on this one .... Show me .. In writing , and not some Googled hearsay . I`ll believe you when things are substantiated.. Most times they aren`t.



Hear say?nope sorry.its what I`m payed to do.

That`s the perks of working in an automotive factory and working direct with DuPont,who BTW will cease to exist as their entire paint coating division was bought out for close to 5 billion.

You`ll have a hard time finding that on any detailing forum.

But a quick search will yield the Carlyle group bought em out and the DuPont paint name will no longer exist.



You might still hear names like IMRON or Chromax(maybe theyre not süre yet)and a few other names but DuPont is gone.we are currently using the last of their supplies.they estimated 6 month left for us.

As far as PPG we use them also depending on the color itself.

Some colors look better in PPG than DuPont and vice versa.



Jeff Gordon is switching the car scheme as no more DuPont now it will be AXALTA.

That will be the new version of DuPont.

Your welcome to Google.



I can have Russ our AXALTA factory rep write something out for you if it will ease your mind.

Frankly I don`t care if you believe me.

We have this little tool you take that measures depth in paint.

The instant were done baking twice at 165 we take a depth measurement.

For example we can get 6.5 to 7.0 within 2 weeks before delivering it can be in the 5.5 to 5.9

3 months later your right at 5.2/3

So I ain`t no chemical scientists but everyone in the paint industry will see that as the paint curing.you tell me either way I`m not going to argue with you about something I actually do as a profession.









I guess my question is "Has anyone seen actual documentation from the car or paint manufacturer saying OEM paint needs cure time and if so how much. "



I am sure that if cure time was needed the manual would say don`t wax for XXX days and the dealers would be instructed not to wax/seal new cars.



Maybe Ron Ketcham can chime in here with links to documentation, or comments.

[pwaug]

I think the same situation exists for repaints. You hear 30 days, 90 days etc. I`ve had two top notch body shops tell me the same thing "No need for any waiting period to wax or seal as we bake the finish after painting." So I`d really like to know as my car is in the body shop now.

[Accumulator]

I`ll defer to somebody like Ron on the topic of OE finishes.



With regard to the "baking" done by bodyshops, I`ve never known a shop that baked at the same high temps that the factories use, nor do any of the shops I`ve patronized use the (exact) same paint that`s used by the oem. Most of the shops I`ve patronized do bake, but it`s just not all that hot (won`t melt wiring/etc. that`s not on the car when painted during manufacture).



When it comes to repaints, back before water-based paints I had dramatic instances of paint continuing to harden over the course of several months. About the time I no longer smelled the outgassing the hardness stabilized (at "hard as it`s gonna get"). It was sometimes along the lines of going from "Jet black BMW-soft" to "hard as OE Audi" over the course of a few months.



These days, with waterbased paints I haven`t noticed the same dramatic differences in hardness over 1-3 months. But it *do* still see "shrinkage" or maybe "die back", where previously invisible prep flaws become visible over the course of time. This tells me that *something* is happening/changing, otherwise the flaws would`ve been visible from the get-go.

[Jesstzn]

Ya I was hoping Ron would chime in ... must be enjoying the Laborday weekend. TOWGT also has posted regarding this but not sure of the source. Thought he might chime in too.



In essence the guy in the other forum claims to work for Honda and claims factory paint isn`t as cured as we think and needs 3 to 6 months and he is using measurements taken with a paint thickness gauge and the difference in thicknesses is claimed to be from curing/gassing off. 20 to 25% reduction in thickness due to gassing off? But can`t provide documentation from the paint manufacturers stating this for OEM paint.

[Accumulator]

Jesstzn- Huh, never heard of that "thickness reduction" and I gotta admit I know nothing about newer Hondas.



Note that plenty of LSPs are now considered OK for "curing" paint anyhow. Optimum`s Car Wax is approved by Ford for "post-production paintwork" and IIRC the OptiCoat really is supposed to be OK too (no, I don`t understand how that supposedly works :nixweiss ).

[Jesstzn]

Jesstzn- Huh, never heard of that "thickness reduction" and I gotta admit I know nothing about newer Hondas.



.

I never heard of it either ... prolly not just Hondas ... doubt if paint knows the difference of which car its on. I am surprised TOGWT hasn`t chimed in yet. He had a posting about this a while back in another thread.



I`ll PM you the link ... I think you will enjoy reading it ....

[Accumulator]

I`ll PM you the link ... I think you will enjoy reading it ....

Well, I wouldn`t say I *enjoyed* it all that much as internet arguing usually ends up making me And the guy you`re :argue with....uhm....well, I think I`d just do the "step back from the keyboard" thing before I got caught up in it

[Jesstzn]

Well, I wouldn`t say I *enjoyed* it all that much as internet arguing usually ends up making me And the guy you`re :argue with....uhm....well, I think I`d just do the "step back from the keyboard" thing before I got caught up in it

Lol yeep .. wouldn`t be bad if this was the first thread he did this in but like the rest ... he fires out a comment that he says is gospel yet bounces all over and dumps it back in your lap if you question him at all. Heck if 3 to 6 months is in fact true I`d be the first one to pass it on.

[Accumulator]

.. wouldn`t be bad if this was the first thread he did this in but like the rest ... he fires out a comment that he says is gospel yet bounces all over and dumps it back in your lap if you question him at all...

Eh, I just wouldn`t engage him. Lots of people on the internet are wrong about lots of stuff, maybe he`s one of `em :nixweiss

Heck if 3 to 6 months is in fact true I`d be the first one to pass it on.

I`d want to hear it from somebody that I *knew* to be credible first. Not that I worry all that much about what other people do to their paint

[Jesstzn]

Eh, I just wouldn`t engage him. Lots of people on the internet are wrong about lots of stuff, maybe he`s one of `em :nixweiss







I`d want to hear it from somebody that I *knew* to be credible first. Not that I worry all that much about what other people do to their paint

Exactly .. that`s what I was pressuring him for .. a credible source.

[RaskyR1]

Ya I was hoping Ron would chime in ... must be enjoying the Laborday weekend. TOWGT also has posted regarding this but not sure of the source. Thought he might chime in too.



In essence the guy in the other forum claims to work for Honda and claims factory paint isn`t as cured as we think and needs 3 to 6 months and he is using measurements taken with a paint thickness gauge and the difference in thicknesses is claimed to be from curing/gassing off. 20 to 25% reduction in thickness due to gassing off? But can`t provide documentation from the paint manufacturers stating this for OEM paint.

What forum is this from? Most of what he is saying goes against pretty much every expert post I`ve read. I`ve also never heard of or seen a case of solvent pop from waxing/sealing a new car....

[Jesstzn]

What forum is this from? Most of what he is saying goes against pretty much every expert post I`ve read. I`ve also never heard of or seen a case of solvent pop from waxing/sealing a new car....

From a Civic detail forum.

[RaskyR1]

From a Civic detail forum.

I`m on the 8thcivic and 9thcivic forums....one of those?

[RaskyR1]

I`d list my source on this quote but the page is gone (link no work), but I had copied part of the info for reference in another thread.

WHEN TO WAX?



A topic for consideration, about which many people are misinformed, is when you can wax the vehicle or apply paint sealant. Looking back at the curing process, both the 1K and 2K systems are 90-95% cured upon cool down, after the bake process, in the factory spray booth. The additional 5-10% will cure within 3-7 days. This means that by the time any vehicle reaches its destination at a dealer, the paint is fully cured. By not applying some sort of protection to the paint surface upon delivery or shortly after, the customer is actually hurting the paint instead of helping it. Salesmen that say don`t wax a car for 6-12 months are misinformed. This is a huge problem in our business because customers will tend to believe a salesman who knows nothing about paint, rather than a trained professional. This is often why fairly new cars are in such bad shape even after a short period of time.

[Jesstzn]

I`m on the 8thcivic and 9thcivic forums....one of those?

9th ... thread is locked now