Page 1 of 8 12345678 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 117
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    834
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hey everyone, I am looking to do a rail dust and iron particle decontamination on my car before I fully detail it again. I noticed that it is really starting to collect on the horizontal surfaces on the rear of the car, and clay doesn`t fully remove it. I have been looking to use the Iron X Iron Remover, but the description of how it works makes me kind of nervous.



    Iron X opens up the paint`s pores to release iron particles and to neutralize the caustic compounds that have developed as a result of the particle.





    :twitch:



    So what does this mean? Are the paint pores going to be more succeptable to damage where the iron particles once were? Keep in mind this is going to be used on a 10 yeard old car in really good shape, but has never had a real decontamination and only has been clayed a couple times. Should I be concerned about possible paint failure later on after using Iron X?



    Have any of you all experienced any finish problems after using it, or problems later on after using Iron X?







    Are there better and safer products out there now? I have been out of the loop lately when it comes to the newest detailing products

  2. #2
    Nth Degree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    RDU, NC
    Posts
    1,741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Assuming you car is base/clear it should be fine. I`ve only heard of problems with single stage white. IronX creates an exothermic reaction that makes the paint expand slightly. Not enough to be measurable, but enough to allow the iron particles to be rinsed away. The pores are always present in your paint and expand and contract as the paint temperature changes. You will not be causing any harm in that aspect. Leaving the iron deposits on/in the paint will cause far greater damage.



    ValuGard`s ABC system is an alternative that will do the same thing and might be slightly safer, but in the end works under the same premise.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Keokuk, Iowa
    Posts
    3,436
    Post Thanks / Like
    May I add that the ValuGard ABC system is not only recommended, but in many cases, "required" by several vehicle manufactuers. These companies had their paint suppliers to their plants which build the vehicles, test the system to assure that it not only works, but will not damage the paint.

    Other "marketed" products, such as mentioned before are not able to obtain such recommendations or approvals to my knowledge. I am NOT talking about some dealership saying it is ok, but the companies that make the vehicles and are required to provide warranty for the paint on their vehicles.

    If one wishes, they may read a "few" of the documents from vehicle companies for the ValuGard ABC system at ValuGard.net, under Technical Service Bulletins.

    Additionally, the ValuGard ABC system is available under private label packaging from Ford Motor Co, and is sold under their MotorCraft brand name.

    Has been done for years, so if it did create problems, they would have removed from their product line a long time ago.

    "Logic dictates I have been at this detailing thing way too many years!":wink1:

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    164
    Post Thanks / Like
    I will add that Iron-X sells itself this way but there are other `bleeding` fallout removers available which do not work by swelling paint, opening pores or exothermic reaction.



    I believe it is likely that the Iron-X type products have not been approved by paint manufacturers simply because of this approach being so new. I don`t think it would be safe to suggest it is not safe. Oxalic acid is a tried and tested (and cheap) method and will be tough to replace simply on cost basis. Making comparison with safety is difficult - from my chemical background - I would believe the valugard system is probably the one which would pose more of a risk. The neutralisation is important here and there are oxalic acid products which fail entirely to note this.



    An additional note on the Valugard system - take with a pinch of salt what you read on some of the forums. There are some technical articles which seem to be rather confused!

  5. #5
    CEE DOG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,354
    Post Thanks / Like
    Iron X is perfectly safe and I have never had a complaint of damage to paint, aluminum, chrome, etc etc.



    Here`s a Q&A that might help.

    Just scroll to the bottom

    http://www.carpro-us.com/iron-x-500m...contamination/



    There are other products that change color but i believe they do so with or without iron. More of a gimmick. Iron X color change is not a gimmick.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    164
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by CEE DOG

    There are other products that change color but i believe they do so with or without iron. More of a gimmick. Iron X color change is not a gimmick.


    I would respectfully request that you retract this comment because it is untrue. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it. I can guarantee you that there are other products which are pH neutral and dissolve iron (and ONLY iron) with a corresponding change of colour to purple (but out of respect for the forum, I have not and will not push products coming from our facility).



    What I can give you is that Iron-X is pH neutral and some of the competitors (not all!) are acidic. Since this is one of the primary characteristics of Iron-X, this seems like a much more reasonable point to push in order to set Iron-X ahead.

  7. #7
    CEE DOG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,354
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks for the info. I will happily retract or clarify that comment. I used the word "believe" because I have not used all other products obviously.



    I have used a popular product that changes color which I was referring to.



    Apologies as no ill intent was intended.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    2,068
    Post Thanks / Like
    This seems to be a reoccurring theme on many a detailing forum. A member ask about a product and how effective is it at doing the job for which they purchased it. Next comes the members who take it to a technical level that 98% of us will never be able to comprehend. We appreciate truley the knowledge these members share but I personally don`t need to know how a product works but does it work as advertised. Is there a danger or problem with said product or another product that does a better job safer or cheaper. Maybe I`m alone here but without a chemistry background the back and forth between the experts is useless to me.

    To the original poster and the use of Iron-X ,I have used this product for the past two years without any problem. The only other product that I have tried during that time was from the "Wolfs" line and was not impressed comparred to Iron-X. Are their better alternatives out there ? Maybe but I can only comment on my own experiences.
    Paul Sparks

    Distinctive Auto Detailing

    Indianapolis IN 46234

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Distin...70659146390192

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    164
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by CEE DOG
    Thanks for the info. I will happily retract or clarify that comment. I used the word "believe" because I have not used all other products obviously.



    I have used a popular product that changes color which I was referring to.



    Apologies as no ill intent was intended.


    Many thanks. Perhaps you might PM me the name of the product you were referring to - I am aware of about a dozen products under different brand stickers but all use the same fundamental chemistry. As I noted, there are a few acidic products and I would very much support a drive to highlight this - users generally don`t know this and it takes business away from IX (and products like mine) which are indeed neutral.



    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sparks
    This seems to be a reoccurring theme on many a detailing forum. A member ask about a product and how effective is it at doing the job for which they purchased it. Next comes the members who take it to a technical level that 98% of us will never be able to comprehend. We appreciate truley the knowledge these members share but I personally don`t need to know how a product works but does it work as advertised. Is there a danger or problem with said product or another product that does a better job safer or cheaper. Maybe I`m alone here but without a chemistry background the back and forth between the experts is useless to me.

    To the original poster and the use of Iron-X ,I have used this product for the past two years without any problem. The only other product that I have tried during that time was from the "Wolfs" line and was not impressed comparred to Iron-X. Are their better alternatives out there ? Maybe but I can only comment on my own experiences.


    In this day, there is so much information available that it is important to ensure that there is some accuracy. Without naming names, there are are certain companies who provide marketing literature which is misleading at best. Consumers then buy the products believing one thing and end up with performance which is less than they would have got had they bought the competing products who were more honest in their marketing. The term `nano` is the biggest culprit here. The other one is the pH, which I have noted to CEE DOG - this is important because misleading information can end up with less knowledgable users utilising products which are more hazardous than they realise.



    Alternatives to Iron-X: In the US, I know of only Wolfs and Sonax. Looking at the MSDS (they are legally obliged to provide them) and considering the hazard classification (all use the same fundamental chemistry and active ingredient, so more active ingredient basically means more hazardous) - you have to agree with CEE DOG that IX appears to be the strongest.

  10. #10
    The Old Grey Whistle Test togwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Florida, USA - London, England
    Posts
    5,464
    Post Thanks / Like
    a) This type of product should not be used on compromised Chrome (peeling, flaking, etc), unpainted metal parts, Acrylic painted callipers, carbon Ceramic rotors, SMART paint repairs or Wheel balancing weights



    b) Ensure that product is not allowed to dry on paint surfaces and all painted surfaces are thoroughly rinsed with clean water



    c) To ensure it doesn`t stain the driveway, simply rinse with clean water before using. When you rinse it off the paint, it is less likely that it will stain the driveway. You should immediately rinse the pavement with a strong stream of water for several minutes to ensure nothing is left behind.
    What gets overlooked too often is that one must be a student before becoming a teacher.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    I find these discussions both interesting and informative.



    Quote Originally Posted by TOGWT
    This type of product should not be used on...


    Which product is that, the Iron-X?

  12. #12
    The Old Grey Whistle Test togwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Florida, USA - London, England
    Posts
    5,464
    Post Thanks / Like
    This would apply to most acid-based (even neutralised) strong mineral acid type products; and the rinse is especially important for any product formulated with carbolic (Oxalic) type acids



    a) This type of product should not be used on compromised Chrome (peeling, flaking, etc), unpainted metal parts, Acrylic painted callipers, carbon Ceramic rotors, SMART paint repairs or Wheel balancing weights



    This would apply to most acid-based (even neutralised) decontamination products



    b) Ensure that product is not allowed to dry on paint surfaces and all painted surfaces are thoroughly rinsed with clean water



    As it dries it becomes more and more caustic and could cause major paint damage



    c) To ensure it doesn`t stain the driveway, simply rinse with clean water before using. When you rinse it off the paint, it is less likely that it will stain the driveway. You should immediately rinse the pavement with a strong stream of water for several minutes to ensure nothing is left behind.



    This would apply to most acid-based (even neutralised) decontamination products
    What gets overlooked too often is that one must be a student before becoming a teacher.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    164
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TOGWT

    b) Ensure that product is not allowed to dry on paint surfaces and all painted surfaces are thoroughly rinsed with clean water



    As it dries it becomes more and more caustic and could cause major paint damage


    This is not something which should be directed at fallout removers alone, this should be a generic rule for almost any cleaning chemicals.







    Quote Originally Posted by TOGWT

    c) To ensure it doesn`t stain the driveway, simply rinse with clean water before using. When you rinse it off the paint, it is less likely that it will stain the driveway. You should immediately rinse the pavement with a strong stream of water for several minutes to ensure nothing is left behind.



    This would apply to most acid-based (even neutralised) decontamination products


    On tarmac or asphalt, water based products, short of those which are highly alkaline, will have practically zero hazard. With these surfaces the only real danger is hydrocarbon based solvent products, most commonly exemplified by tar removers (more of a concern in places like the UK). On lime based surfaces (meaning concrete/cement type), the situation is reversed - solvent and alkaline aqueous products present very little hazard. On the contrary, acidic products will have a vigorous reaction with the alkaline surface and will do damage. pH neutral products present very little hazard to either tar or concrete surfaces and I have never seen any of the neutral iron removers stain either surface.



    The neutrality is one of the reasons that Iron-X genuinely is a good product, it is very specific in its reaction. Because it is neutral, it does not react generically as an acid would (an acid will react with almost any metal or alkaline substrate, neutral products won`t). It reacts almost exclusively with ferric iron. It doesn`t react with other metals, such as ferrous iron (which is common in vehicle construction). If your product is acidic, no matter what acid it is, it will result in reactions which the neutralised for will not. This is the reason I have been so clean in pointing out the relevance of the pH previously - a pH neutral bleeding fallout remover will be fundamentally safer when applied to a metallic bodies than a bleeding fallout remover which is acidic.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by PiPUK
    ...The neutrality is one of the reasons that Iron-X genuinely is a good product, it is very specific in its reaction. Because it is neutral, it does not react generically as an acid would (an acid will react with almost any metal or alkaline substrate, neutral products won`t). It reacts almost exclusively with ferric iron. It doesn`t react with other metals, such as ferrous iron (which is common in vehicle construction). If your product is acidic, no matter what acid it is, it will result in reactions which the neutralised for will not...


    That has me thinking how the Iron-X would be good for my Audis, what with their somewhat compromised aluminum trim. While regulars here know that I`m a big fan on ABC, well..."horses for courses" as the saying goes; different situations can call for different approaches.

  15. #15
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Troy, MI
    Posts
    12,534
    Post Thanks / Like
    I will say this......I`ve been using ABC happily for decades. But, just for argument`s sake, how vital is a car and paint manufacturer`s approval for a product of this kind? Yes, several manufacturers recommend/suggest using it and in those cases ABC stands basically all by itself. But in every other market besides this I can`t see how it`s that much of a necessity? People want the problem removed from their finish. Detailers want to execute this in the quickest, most inexpensive and easy way. No system out there is a permanent solution to the problem. Once it`s removed, it`s still going to come back no matter how clean and neutralized the surface is.
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

 

 
Page 1 of 8 12345678 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Iron Removal Product
    By JSFM35X in forum Washing, Drying, and Claying
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-25-2013, 09:42 AM
  2. Product for Piano Black *spray* finishes
    By pingable in forum Car Detailing Product Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-13-2012, 04:29 PM
  3. Iron X, safe for all surfaces?
    By imported_RedlineIRL in forum Car Detailing Product Discussion
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 05-05-2012, 02:55 PM
  4. Iron X Iron Remover or Iron X Soap Gel?
    By AndyWax in forum Car Detailing Product Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-23-2011, 10:57 AM
  5. Is OPS adequate for a one-step product on new finishes?
    By imported_NHBFAN in forum Car Detailing Product Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-18-2009, 10:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •