8 Way Paint Sealant Test

[TigerMike]

Regardless of how many millions of cars anyone has detailed, has really nothing to do with the fact that DuPont publically stated that Teflon provides zero benefit and is of no use in car care products. Do you tell your customers this before you probably overcharge them for your miracle Teflon product that provides no greater benefit than a regular $5 bottle of Turtle wax?

[Bobby G]

No, your not an expert and you definetly didn`t study science in school. I don`t think you get it, TEFLON cannot bond to the paints surface unless it is super heated, understand? Not yet, let me repeat, TEFLON cannot bond to the paints surface unless it is super heated...



Get it yet, its science...



As far as you customers, I have seen many floored by the results from the hack shop, so your point is equally retarded...



Now, I want you to repeat, TEFLON cannot bond to the paints surface with out being super heated, get it yet?

What I get from this post is that YOU are a member basher. This is way out of line and won`t be tollerated. If you have factual knowledge you are welcome to present it as so. You are not welcome to bash people.



30 Day Time Out!

[imported_Grouse]

Regardless of how many millions of cars anyone has detailed, has really nothing to do with the fact that DuPont publically stated that Teflon provides zero benefit and is of no use in car care products. Do you tell your customers this before you probably overcharge them for your miracle Teflon product that provides no greater benefit than a regular $5 bottle of Turtle wax?

In that instance they were (to the best of my recollection) talking about PTFE, which is different, vastly from a flourocarbon strain of teflon. Which can to some degree bond with a substrate. Weather or not it is a improved system over current acryllic or polymer sealants remains to be seen.

[Bobby G]

`

R2000 was a product that GM developed with DuPont. When they stopped the program CPC took it over. We\`ve applied the product to over 100,000 vehicles in the salt laden \r\nState of Michigan with great results. We have a rebuy rate of over 98% which to me is say\`sit all. It works. 15 years and 100.000 cars is text results enough for me.

Mr. French,



You seem to have gotten the hackels raised on a few people (judging by the number of times this post has been reported). I`d like to clear the air for the misinformed.



R-2000 is a member of a family of brands that sell a polarized Teflon paint protection system. To the best of my knowledge they are: 5 Star Shine, paint defence, counteract paint protection, CPC paint, and R-2000. All of these brands use the same method and materials (as far as I can tell). Each of these brand offers the near identical same warranty and claim the coating "can last" for up to 5 years without the need to renew the process. Before the bashing continues on Teflon, members should go educate themselves on the claims being made. Do you believe in the polarization process or don`t you? Is there any 3rd party fact to back it up? What are customers saying?



db



FYI: According to your statement, you are a reseller of the R-2000 products. That makes your posts commercial in nature, which is not in line with our community rules. Please review.

[elsdragon314]

Grouse, thank you for reiterating the point. PTFE is just one of many fluoropolymers generically known by the teflon name. PTFE is very different from some of the other types, and in the Zonyl instance, it is specifically in DuPont`s literature that it is intended as an additive for cleaners waxes, etc.



From DuPont`s website: "Fluorosurfactants are versatile and can be used with a wide variety of materials such as paint and coatings, adhesives, waxes and polishes, and cleaning products"



We have to be very careful saying teflon, generically people think of the stuff covering their cookware, and it is true, that is of absolutely no use for car care, but there are many other things that fall under the teflon name, some of which DuPont designed for this type of use.



Regardless, this is waaaaay off topic, and I think we should go back to what the point is: a very nice and well thought out product comparison, I can`t wait to see results at the 6 month mark!

[Brian_Brice]

David,



By no means am I going to question your authority in banning anyone, I would simply like to point out that Todd was merely attempting to rid this forum from an apparent spammer. This so called member`s FIRST post was glorifying a product that you and I both know to be better suited for Billy Mays infomercials at 3:45 in the morning. I consider this site very important to the world of detailing, and it`s reputation and dignity need to be upheld. Who better to do so than seasoned veterans who know a duck when they see it. I understand it is debatable where the before mentioned "member" was going with his introduction to the site, but I think we both know. I hope you realize how counter productive the new "member" is in every facet of our industry. If what he says is true, he comes into contact with 30 people a day multiplied by 300 days by fifteen years, and you know what he is doing to them. He`s making it much harder for the likes of us to bring the real world of detailing to the uninformed customer. People like this represent everything that is wrong in this industry and should be publicly called out much more severe than this one was. Todd is a very devoted and passionate detailer that should be viewed as an asset to this forum for his love of detailing, not high volume of six figure vehicles he services on a daily basis.



I tried to send you a pm but your box is full.

[Bobby G]

David,



By no means am I going to question your authority in banning anyone, I would simply like to point out that Todd was merely attempting to rid this forum from an apparent spammer. This so called member`s FIRST post was glorifying a product that you and I both know to be better suited for Billy Mays infomercials at 3:45 in the morning. I consider this site very important to the world of detailing, and it`s reputation and dignity need to be upheld. Who better to do so than seasoned veterans who know a duck when they see it. I understand it is debatable where the before mentioned "member" was going with his introduction to the site, but I think we both know. I hope you realize how counter productive the new "member" is in every facet of our industry. If what he says is true, he comes into contact with 30 people a day multiplied by 300 days by fifteen years, and you know what he is doing to them. He`s making it much harder for the likes of us to bring the real world of detailing to the uninformed customer. People like this represent everything that is wrong in this industry and should be publicly called out much more severe than this one was. Todd is a very devoted and passionate detailer that should be viewed as an asset to this forum for his love of detailing, not high volume of six figure vehicles he services on a daily basis.



I tried to send you a pm but your box is full.

I understand. However, it is the job of the forum Moderators to rid the community of spammers, shills and such. I received a number of spam reports from folks who believed there was wrong doing in this thread. As a result, I did an hour of research on Mr. French to see if I could find a hard connection to the product. The only connection is that he admits to applying it for his customers. This in itself is enough for me to nail it as a commerical post, which is not allowed. Still, this in no way gives Todd permission to bash members... THAT`S MY JOB! :woohoo: Plus, it`s not the first time I have noticed this kind of lanugage from Todd. IMHO, it is not in the Autopia spirit and not what most members want to see on this site. We`re here to learn and share. If Mr. French continues to push his position on R-2000 while maintaining a commercial interest, the rules will be applied swiftly.

[Brian_Brice]

Thanks for the feedback David!



Todd did need to be grounded, I told him I want him to think about what he did for a month anyways, whether you banned him for thirty days or not.



I`m glad you didn`t ban him for good, I think he`ll stick to the facts from now on.

[imported_Grouse]

The facts could be, that the r2000 guy owns a 4-6 bay shop. 2 guys 2 cars a day, if those are new car dealer prep then how can you fault him for making money and doing good work. I don`t mean to be rude VASuper, but you are also jumping to conclusions. Everyone here who does this for a living tells people what they use for sealant. He has done the same. Do you have specific knowledge that r-2000 lasts any less than zaino? Yes r-2000 is a warranty product, a warranty is simpler way of saying maintenance contract. so he gets 1000 Dollars up front to maintain a car for 2-3 years. Most cars are traded in at 2-3 years. Most here charge less than 200 a detail. so he could still charge 250 and be ahead of the game.



Shrug.

[Brian_Brice]

Wow Grouse, I think you may be jumping to financial conclusions as well :lol

[cwcad]

I too am appreciative of your efforts for this test. Look forward to your comments in the following months.

[charger17]

Zonyl is the next generation Teflon. We`ve been using R2000 in our shops for over 15 years with great success. Customers rave about the finish and how their vehicles look year after year. We apply to 30 vehicles per day, 300 day`s a year but I`m no expert like the rest of you guy`s.

Zonyl is nothing like Teflon, it`s added to the product to improve the evenness of the coating. It is a popular ingredient in emulsion and oil based paints as it makes liquids easier to spread out in a uniform layer. It will add nothing to the durability of the product, but because a product can be labelled as containing `Duponts Zonyl`, it gets the same kind of reaction as something containing `Duponts Teflon`

[charger17]

Thanks for clarifying this. I know you know what you`re talking about. :2thumbs: I`d appreciate any more input on the test and/or judging the results you`d be willing to offer.

Thanks David, any help you need just let me know, although I would have to say you seem to be doing just fine on your own

[MrAP]

Since I live less than 35 minutes away, I volunteer if you need a pair of independent eyes.

[David Fermani]

FYI – after gldetail made their original post I was somewhat perplexed. Their short screen name + location made me question if it was a business I’ve followed for several years and who I’ve had extensive dealings with while I owned & operated my detailing business in Michigan. After PMing gldetail, Steve French replied back confirming to me that he is co-owner of Great Lakes Detailing. Although I’ve never met Steve, I know of him and that he is associated with a unit of a very large corporation (Great Lakes Companies) that actually is involved in several aspects of dealer services ranging from finance, insurance, warranty, chemical, sales training as well as reconditioning, detailing & protection; mostly at the dealer level. I can testify that they are one of, if not the, largest vehicle reconditioning & protection application centers in the country. I’ve toured & trained at their facilities several times and can vouch that they have one of the nicest, most state of the art & well run shops I’ve ever seen (I’ve seen quite a few!). They also test various chemicals (waxes/cleaners/protectants) for several chemical manufacturers in addition to producing multi-million’s in detailing and protection revenues annually. Although their main focus is on the wholesale dealership level, they also do a large amount of volume with retail clients too. I guarantee that if anyone on this forum toured their facility, they would surely be impressed and envy their 1st class operation. Great Lakes Detailing does not sell any chemicals on a wholesale or retail level and is in no way (from my experience and in reading their posts here) selling a product or benefiting in any way posting here(spamming). The product in question here (R-2000) is *mostly* sold to dealerships & application centers throughout the world and in the case with Great Lakes Detailing, they do not sell it. I actually had to beg for a sample of R-2000 for months from my connection at Great Lakes Chemicals and finally got some to test out. I really think that members of Autopia can benefit from Steve’s professional input as well as his vast background and experience in both reconditioning and protection products. I can and am willing to personally vouch for his integrity as a well respected detail operator as well as his knowledge in detailing itself. He is merely expressing his opinion on a product just like many of us do on a regular basis here. He does (correct me if I am wrong) offer a 5 year warranty on most of their sealants/protectants, BUT with annual reapplications that religiously get renewed.



One of the reasons for doing this test is to verify each product’s longevity. Please note that I have a mixture of products that are discussed on this forum as well as products that aren’t. I (along with most of you) would like to see how some of our products stack up against some of the “smoke and mirrorâ€� / “snake oilâ€� products that have developed a bad reputation in the enthusiast’s mind. I’m tying to do a legitimate test to see which product really holds their ground and could possibly earn the respect of some the non-believers (if such prevails). In addition, the other reason for doing this test is to explore the desire I have for actually entering the application center market in the near future. The results of this test will have a direct influence on which product I choose to use. If I’m going to offer a product and stand by its so-called claims, I want to be sure for myself. Let the testing continue……….