Weasel Wording of the Decade (GM Chapt. 11)

**Setec Astronomy** · 06-09-2009, 06:21 AM

I got an email from GM (An important message from Troy Clarke, President, GM North America). I thought it was going to be about their bankruptcy, but I was wrong

:

"As you may know, GM is using an expedited, court-supervised process to accelerate the reinvention of our company."

It was a big long letter, but NOWHERE are the words bankruptcy or Chapter 11 mentioned.

**Perferd** · 06-09-2009, 06:26 AM

You sure it wasnt from the President and CEO of GM Obama?

**Setec Astronomy** · 06-09-2009, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Perferd

You sure it wasnt from the President and CEO of GM Obama?

No, it wasn`t. I happen to think it`s outrageous that a bunch of crooked bankers (etc.) got hundreds of billions in bailout money yet manufacturing got a pittance, but without Gov`t help GM would have been bankrupt months ago. These problems are due to the companies having truly gone bankrupt--ethically--long ago, not due to the Gov`t. (at least not the short-term actions of the Gov`t).

You can spin the whole scenario any way you want to, but if GM had been thinking with the big head instead of the little one maybe they would have already had a car like the Volt, Prius, or Insight. Or if the Gov`t had just kept a little upward pressure on the fuel economy standards between 1985 and 2006, maybe the excellent large vehicle hybrid system would have been affordable and in all GM`s large vehicles now. How a company that was farsighted enough to purchase EDS and Hughes Electronics in the 80`s gets caught flatfooted (again) by oil prices and foreign competition is just a shame.

**SamIam** · 06-09-2009, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

You can spin the whole scenario any way you want to, but if GM had been thinking with the big head instead of the little one maybe they would have already had a car like the Volt, Prius, or Insight. Or if the Gov`t had just kept a little upward pressure on the fuel economy standards between 1985 and 2006, maybe the excellent large vehicle hybrid system would have been affordable and in all GM`s large vehicles now. How a company that was farsighted enough to purchase EDS and Hughes Electronics in the 80`s gets caught flatfooted (again) by oil prices and foreign competition is just a shame.

If the Volt had been released 2 years ago, it would not have saved GM. All the Hybrid SUVs and Trucks would not have saved GM. There is not a back log of Prius or Insight orders.

In the end, it seems to me that nagging perceptions of quality (rightly or wrongly), strong competitors, their cost structure and overall uninspired products hurt GM more than anything. Mixing in some hybrid offerings couldn`t have fixed their issues.

By the way, I agree that the bankers got way too much money. I sell into the automotive industry, mostly to the office of finance, and grieve for what is happening to the auto industry. However, they way we`ve thrown money at problems without getting to the core of the issue is a recipe for disaster.

**imported_Detailing Technology** · 06-09-2009, 08:37 AM

That is kind of like the false wording the current president uses when he says, "jobs saved or created".

No verifyable content there..

**Barry Theal** · 06-09-2009, 06:24 PM

what a letter. thats insane. i have got to be honest though. im truely at a point where i really don`t care anymore. truthfully think about it, they got there big bail out then go bankrupt. when do i get bailed out. ya know. i got a stimulas check. lmao thanks for a weeks groceries. lmfao i served this country and for what? we blow places up and rebuild them. we feed other countries and help everyone. yet we have tons of people here starving, homeless, can`t afford health insurance and so on. im done rambling on this country went to ****. Thank god for socialisom!!!!! lol

**imported_mosborn9** · 06-09-2009, 06:56 PM

There are many reasons why GM went into bankruptcy but it`s hard to compete when the health care you are providing to your workers adds $1,100-$1,500 to every vehicle you sell.

**Lenny** · 06-09-2009, 07:39 PM

Talk about P.R. spin. Oh well, nothing to get upset over. After all, spin is just that - spin.

**Lenny** · 06-09-2009, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

No, it wasn`t. I happen to think it`s outrageous that a bunch of crooked bankers (etc.) got hundreds of billions in bailout money yet manufacturing got a pittance, but without Gov`t help GM would have been bankrupt months ago. These problems are due to the companies having truly gone bankrupt--ethically--long ago, not due to the Gov`t. (at least not the short-term actions of the Gov`t).

You can spin the whole scenario any way you want to, but if GM had been thinking with the big head instead of the little one maybe they would have already had a car like the Volt, Prius, or Insight. Or if the Gov`t had just kept a little upward pressure on the fuel economy standards between 1985 and 2006, maybe the excellent large vehicle hybrid system would have been affordable and in all GM`s large vehicles now. How a company that was farsighted enough to purchase EDS and Hughes Electronics in the 80`s gets caught flatfooted (again) by oil prices and foreign competition is just a shame.

They got caught as flatfooted as Toyota. Toyota sunk billions into the full size pickup and SUV market, only to see that market shrink, and their billion dollar truck plant in San Antonio still only run on one shift - half capacity. Then Toyota goes and builds a new plant in Mississippi to build midsize SUV`s, the Highlander, only to see that market tank as well. So, halfway through the construction process, Toyota changes their mind, and decides that Mississippi will build Prius`s. Then oil prices plummet, and now all the tooling orders are canceled, the quotes for that tooling is out-of-date, and the building sits empty. Then just as the Prius starts FINALLY paying it`s own way and making money, Toyota brings out a third generation Prius with even more hi-tech content, Honda brings out a less expensive Insight, forcing Toyota to price match, and voila! Prius is a corporate money pit. Again.

The auto industry is part marketing research, part guessing game, and a big part luck. Timing can be everything, and last years credit market crash precipitated much of the current situation for the whole auto industry, with everyone, including Toyota and Honda, losing billions of dollars. In fact, Toyota`s current cash burn is higher than GM`s was at their worse month in the last six month. GM built, from 1985 to 2006, closer to what the majority of the market wanted - bigger vehicles and SUV`s. A lot of the product had bad timing in coming out, bad quality in some cases, but bottom line, they followed the consumer trends to expensive SUV`s and trucks. So did Toyota. So did Mercedes. So did Nissan. So did BMW.

And the reason the government didn`t keep CAFE pressure up was that the majority of people objected. Both in their buying habits and in their voting habits. Bottom line.

And I`m with you - I think it`s a shame that manufacturing gets treated like the red headed step child.

**Setec Astronomy** · 06-09-2009, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Len_A

And the reason the government didn`t keep CAFE pressure up was that the majority of people objected. Both in their buying habits and in their voting habits. Bottom line.

People, companies, governments, CAN do the right thing. It`s not the easiest thing to do. I tried, until I couldn`t buy any more American machines, until there were no small American hatchbacks and I had to buy a Japanese one. You can call it nanny-statism if you want, but it was only a matter of time until oil prices went up, and it`s only a matter of time until they go up again (already are). If the individual car companies couldn`t do the right thing because their competition wouldn`t, it was up to the government to level the playing thing and make them all do the right thing.

Anyway, I didn`t really want to make this thread into a debate on who failed or didn`t and why...I just couldn`t believe the spin...like us GM owners don`t read the paper...

**Lenny** · 06-09-2009, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

Anyway, I didn`t really want to make this thread into a debate on who failed or didn`t and why...I just couldn`t believe the spin...like us GM owners don`t read the paper...

Like I said before, it`s just P.R. spin (or maybe the initials should be "B.S."). I`ve been in market and sales for over two and a half decades (until this very long period of unemployment) and I would be shocked if they used a works like "bankruptcy" in any kind of communication with customers. It`s just too negative, even if you GM owners read the paper.

**Setec Astronomy** · 06-09-2009, 08:50 PM

BTW, I think in this particular instance, if everybody had done the right thing, then everyone could have had their cake and eaten it, too. The GM heavy-vehicle hybrid system is reportedly very good, and seems to be pretty transparent. The upside is 50% better city mileage, the downside is a lot of extra cost. I think in this case if it had been managed right, volume would have brought the cost down into an effective range.

Heck, we got some new A/C units at work that were high efficiency...we got a rebate from the power company that was substantially the cost difference between the std. and hi-efficiency...so we got the high efficiency upgrade for free, we save electricity for the life of the equipment, the power company doesn`t have to build a new plant...seems pretty win-win to me.

**Lenny** · 06-09-2009, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

BTW, I think in this particular instance, if everybody had done the right thing, then everyone could have had their cake and eaten it, too. The GM heavy-vehicle hybrid system is reportedly very good, and seems to be pretty transparent. The upside is 50% better city mileage, the downside is a lot of extra cost. I think in this case if it had been managed right, volume would have brought the cost down into an effective range.

Heck, we got some new A/C units at work that were high efficiency...we got a rebate from the power company that was substantially the cost difference between the std. and hi-efficiency...so we got the high efficiency upgrade for free, we save electricity for the life of the equipment, the power company doesn`t have to build a new plant...seems pretty win-win to me.

I tend to agree. And there`s also, speaking of the power companies, the fact that they waste as much as two thirds of the energy, in any unit of fuel, as waste heat, and resist like hell any attempt to get them to improve their efficiency. Even when faced with the fact that the technology is off the shelf, and at least two countries, Japan and Denmark, do this wast heat energy recovery as a matter of course.

Here`s something for you to read: Find greatest energy savings in power production industry

Keep in mind the author used to be a power industry executive. Enjoy.

BTW, I used to call on the power industry, and one of my friends, and a former engineering customer at DTE Energy (Detroit Edison), verified everything this guy says is possible.

**Setec Astronomy** · 06-09-2009, 09:10 PM

Ha...I was talking to someone who told me that he likes to shake up greenies at cocktail parties by telling them if they are really "green" they support nuclear power, right? Because it`s the only proven capacity power source that uses no non-renewables, creates no CO2 or greenhouse gases, pollutants, etc. And don`t get me started about the waste everywhere...

**Lenny** · 06-09-2009, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

Ha...I was talking to someone who told me that he likes to shake up greenies at cocktail parties by telling them if they are really "green" they support nuclear power, right? Because it`s the only proven capacity power source that uses no non-renewables, creates no CO2 or greenhouse gases, pollutants, etc. And don`t get me started about the waste everywhere...

I love jerking their chains as well. Tell your friend to remind them that countries like France get most of their electricity from nuclear. That really drives the greenie weenies crazy.