Audi owners, what would you do?

[SamIam]

I have a black 97 A8. I love the car, but there is always something breaking on it. I replace the transmission at 52K miles, on my own dime as Audi was, well, unhelpful. I have had electrical shorts, and just experienced another one, leaving my lower brake lights out, as well as the DVD changer being dead. I am told this will require a new wiring harness in the back, at a cost of about $1,000 - $1,300 as I recall. They also tell me another cv boot is gone, another $250, as well an issue with the C-link (?) in the suspension, which they estimate is another $1,200. ANd yet this morning, I found that the rear window now has a 4 inch crack in it.



My father-in-law offered to sell me his 2006 Lexus GS300 AWD, loaded, MSRP around $50 or $51K, for $40K. Has 800 miles on it. He never drives it, and wanted to get rid of it.



I checked the price against other cars and it seems pretty fair. The Acura RL and Infinity M35AWD are both more expensive, even for 12,000 mile cars.



Since I`ve now owned 4 different Audis, I went to the Audi dealer to see what they had and ended up in a uncomfortable discussion about what I wanted. I went in looking for a 2001 or 2002 certified A8, or alternatively, a 2005 A6. The sales guy would ask me what I was looking for, and as soon as I would start to speak, the guy would interupt me and say, "So do you want an A6 or an A8?" Guys was both rude and dismissive. Unfortunately, that has been my typical experience at Audi dealers, at least the one here in Indy. He finally offered me a used 2005 for "low $40s" plus $1,500 to certify it.



Then it hit me, while I like Audis, Audi doesn`t give a stink for me. Here I am, ready to write a check for his car, and he acts like he`s doing me a favor by speaking to me. I finally have had it. I`ve put up with failing electrical systems and disintegrating transmissions and noisy steering racks, etc, etc. Why? Because of the "mystique" of the Euro sedan. True, I love driving the A8, but would it be any more fun than a V8 laden Lexus LS430? I don`t know, but I would guess I`m about to find out.



Anyways, what would you do if you were I? I am seriously thinking about buying the Lexus GS300, driving it over the the Audi dealer, and bringing out the sales manager and showing it to him, telling him that as a 4-time Audi owner, I wanted to buy another, but their crummy customer treatment forced me to buy a Lexus.



Anyways, anxious to hear what your opinion is.



SamIam

[imported_topnotch]

I have a 2003 Audi A4, and yet it does not compare to an A8 I have yet to have a serious problem besides a hissing fuel pump that was changed with no questions asked. Dealers are all different and I advise you that if you have the option find another one. I am lucky enough to have an excellent in with a dealer so my dealer experience is always great but only thanks to the mechanic who is a good friend of mine, not the loser service advisors. I recommend if you have not gone there yet visit www.audiworld.com and post this in the A8 forum and in your regional forum. I am sure there will be a few people willing to help you. Another point I would like to make is that I have driven a Lexus many of times and even though they are great reliable automobiles they do tend to lack the road feel of a BMW or Audi. In the end I think you have to weigh out what is more important to you, reliability or joy to drive. I had a Subaru and my A4 and though the 03 Subaru WRX was faster than my modded A4 I always chose to drive the A4 because of the overall feel. Try the forums and let me know my handle on Audiworld is SLVR6 so if you have any questions page me on the NY forums or just email me.

[GTO Pete]

It`s funny how you had a bad experience with Audi with "customer service". I went shopping for a new car with my fiance a couple months back. We went to the local Audi/Porsche dealership to check out the new Audis.



We wandered around the lot for about 15 minutes checking out the vehicles - no one approached us. I figured they didn`t have many people working since it was later in the evening. We went inside and there were about 10 salespeople doing nothing - talking, sitting around, etc.



I was a little ticked and told my fiance not to approach any sales people. We proceeded to sit in various Audis - opening and closing hoods, trunks, doors, etc. This went on for naother 15-20 minutes. Still, no one approached us to offer us help.



I turned to my fiance, said "F-Audi, let`s go" and spent my money elsewhere.



I`m not a Lexus fan, but the 06 GS300 is a very, very nice car. You would be hard pressed to find something comparable at that price for what you are getting.



Good luck and let us know what you decide to do. :usa

[JustinR32]

I`d buy the Lexus, but skip the part about showing it to the Audi guys. that never really turns out the way you expect it to. It won`t be worth the trouble.





Tom

[imported_topnotch]

Audi dealer or all independant, which is why the dealer network stinks. It is really a shame because thats what has prevented Audi to going to a higher level. You can make the nicest car but w/o Customer Service you are nothing. By the way if you think Audi dealers are bad try a Benz dealer. When you look at anything less than a 60K car they could care less about you

[2clean4u]

First of all it sounds like your dealer SUCKS! The Audi dealer by me does not treat its customers like that. Second, sorry to hear about all of the trouble you have had with your A8. You got a lemon. To bad because the A8 is a great car.

As for Lexus, they make a great car, very quite ride, comfortable and reliable but to me they have a very numb and boring feel to them. They do not have that sporty feel that Audi/BMW/M-B have. The seats are way to soft and dont hold you in for fun drives. Also the Audi Quattro system is the best in the business.



Which car is better for you? Well that depends on what you are looking for. I would take a long test drive in a Lexus by your self. Take it on the freeway and find some curvy back roads and decide on it on your own. Dont let anyone talk you into what you should buy.



Since you have the money I would take your time and test drive as many cars as possible. There are some great cars out there right now. Go drive the BMW`s, Infinity`s, M-B, and even the new 300m SRT-8.



I would rather have the new Infinity G35 over anything that Lexus has to offer but that my opinion.



Then when you do make your purchase go back to the Audi dealer and demand to speak to the Sales Manager or owner and tell them that you were not bluffing, that you were ready to spend your money but went else where because of there bad service.



Another option would be to go to another Audi dealer in your area or near by state.



Good Luck and keep us informed with your search.

[imported_Picus]

Man, if Nissan needs to do one thing it`s come out with a commerical that goes something like:



"There is no Y in Infiniti", that`s it. White on black.



(btw, I`d get the GS300, that`s a good price. I wouldn`t buy one new but you`re esentially getting 10k msrp off a new car)

[SamIam]

Tom, you`re right. I just get po`ed and don`t really think things out sometimes.



I have heard that the new GS is a much more lively ride than previous generations of Lexus automobiles. Automobile Magazine says good things about them.



Hasn`t Honda dominated every racing series they go after? Audi better hope Honda doesn`t go chasing them in Le Mans. Remember, Nissan had a killer car when they were competing.



I don`t like the new Bangle-ized BMWs, although many people seem to. In the last few years I seem to hear alot of issues arising with German car owners that aren`t handled well by German car companies. Father-in-law owned 3 BMWs, all had issues. He got the last one, a X5 4.4 returned after they admitted issues with the transmission in the last model year. Drove a new 7 series for awhile, and said the computer system rebooted every 15 minutes or so. Friends who bought new S class Benz told me they had lots of service issues, and were usually given a choice between a Pontiac or a Kia as a rental car while it was worked on. I`ve owned 4 Audis, all had problems, not just the A8. That`s probably why I never bought Audis back to back, since the "pain of ownership" was still fresh. I`d get used to the reliability of my new Acura or whatever, and then figure that my Audi would be the same. Go look at the Audiworld forum regarding the A8, and you will hear PLENTY of painful stories. Probably 2/3 of owners of the pre-2004 models experience issues with their transmissions, with many of those needing rebuilding.



I hear about issues with Lexus and Infiniti, and they typically end well, as in my friend who fried the motor in his second-hand Lexus ES300 at 120K miles or so, and Lexus gave him a new motor, as well as a brand new ES300 to drive while they replaced his. He put on 4,500 miles in the month he had it, and they didn`t even blink when he returned it, only comment was "I hope you were productive." I currently own a Honda Oddysey (no problems that weren`t immediatey taken care of) and have owned 2 Mazdas (Millenia S), 2 Acuras (RL & MDX), and several Toyotas that rusted away but always started back in the late 70s when I was in college.



Heck, I`ve even owned 2 Saabs pre-GM (900 and 9000 Aero) and they were always reliable.



I drive alot selling computer software to corporations. I need a fun, reliable car. Right now I am thinking Lexus, with Infiniti and Acura probably as my fallback. I`ll know next week when I go drive the GS. However, based on what I`ve heard from owners who used to own Mercedes and BMW, I would not be so quick to dismiss the Japanese Luxury cars.

[Accumulator]

Heh heh, you *know* what I`m gonna say Short answer: find a decent dealer or independent shop and get your car fixed or get a later A8. They`re a special car with a unique personality and driving "feel".



Longer answer:



Yeah, your dealer sucks. Experiences like that are why I dumped all our Benzes and went with Audis so I do sympathize. If I were in your shoes, I`d meet with the owner of the dealership and discuss the way their people are treating you. No employee of any business should get away with being rude to a customer. Remember that I do business with a dealer two hours away from me (with numerous crappy Audi dealers much closer that I won`t do business with) because *they* treat me right. I *will* say that if you can`t get decent treatment then an Auid`s not the car for you since they do require a fair bit of work.



But early (pre `01 IIRC) A8s can be fully serviced by independent shops too, so I`d consider that route.



The first A8s were problematic. You`d be better off with the `00. Accumulatorette`s isn`t exactly trouble free, but it`s nothing like what you`re experiencing. IMO the `00s are the best of the lot for numerous reasons (including no DBW issues). She adamantly refuses to even consider trading it for *anything* because she likes it so much. NO transmission troubles either



Having been behind Lexus 430s, I don`t think you`d want one. My wife asked "why is that car leaning over so much in the corners? I bet that`s why it`s going so slow". Nice cars but there`s a reason why people drive them so conservatively



Yeah, the GS would be an easy answer to your problems, but I think you`d miss the Audi. That`s not to say that you shouldn`t consider taking the GS and keeping your eyes open for a nicer A8.

[MorBid]

The MY2005 A4 Ultrasport I brought last fall is the first Audi I`ve owned. I have not had one single probelm with it yet although I have heard tell that Audi did have some reliablity issues with different cars in the past. But those germilins have seemed to be exorcised as even Consumer Reports reccommends the cars.



As others have said, a $hitty experience at the dealership is not indicative of the Automotive manufacturer. To avoid all that interface it`s entirely possible to shop and buy a car on the Internet.



I had quotes from Audi Dealers within a 250 mile radius of my home town as there is only one here.



The best was "go on the internet and get the invoice price for the car you want with the options/colors and if I have it on the lot it`s yours for $500 over that stated invoice price.



So I ended up buying a 38K and change car for 32K and change. My own financing was far better than anything they could put together, when they heard the rates they didn`t even try. I only needed to dealer to get me the car and a salesman to work up the order.



Bottom line I`m trying to make here is that if you like the cars but not the dealers fvck the dealers or salesman. I would call over to AoA and let them know your looking to buy another Audi, you not only will get something off the new purchase (customer loyalty program) but they would be interested in hearing how this dealer is not selling thier cars.



Http://www.audizine.com

http://www.audiworld.com

[drewski59]

First of all it sounds like your dealer SUCKS! The Audi dealer by me does not treat its customers like that. Second, sorry to hear about all of the trouble you have had with your A8. You got a lemon. To bad because the A8 is a great car.

As for Lexus, they make a great car, very quite ride, comfortable and reliable but to me they have a very numb and boring feel to them. They do not have that sporty feel that Audi/BMW/M-B have. The seats are way to soft and dont hold you in for fun drives. Also the Audi Quattro system is the best in the business.

I second everything that Fskof said.



I love Audis, but when the dealerships suck then I would spend my money elsewhere. We went to a Lexus dealer looking for a certified RX330, and the salespeople couldn`t have been more courteous or polite. They just couldn`t give us the price we were looking for, so we ended up with the Pilot, and very nice people at the Honda dealership. :xyxthumbs



If you like the feel of Euro sport-sedans, then you`ll hate Lexus cars. Like it was already stated they totally lack road feel or any involvement at all, really.



Try a BMW dealer at least before you nab the Lexus.

[drewski59]

Wait, everything I said about Lexus above I still stand behind, except for the new IS350



That thing has monster power, but the electrical nannies on it would still probably point me in the direction of BMW.

[2000firebird]

Anyways, what would you do if you were I? I am seriously thinking about buying the Lexus GS300, driving it over the the Audi dealer, and bringing out the sales manager and showing it to him, telling him that as a 4-time Audi owner, I wanted to buy another, but their crummy customer treatment forced me to buy a Lexus.



SamIam

DO IT DO ITT try to point out the individual salesmen as well









as for the lexus, i think i would much rather take an 06 bmw 330i. the lexus`s dont seem to hold their value as well. and the new bmws are stunning

[Accumulator]

IMO rubbing their noses in it after the fact won`t accomplish anything; they`ll just write you off as another guy who "went Japanese". The time to make an impression on them is before you jump ship so they`ll have some motivation to care.

[imported_Picus]

Couple things. VDIM on the IS350 can be turned off, it`s stupid the way you have to do it, but it can be done. I`m just splitting hairs. Lexus has pretty awesome re-sale, normally on par or second only to BMW. The GS does have a lot of body roll and is certainly not a sports car. For $40k I can think of a few other cars I`d personally rather own, but fact is at 40k the GS300 is a really good deal, and if you can sacrifice a bit of the sportiness for a comfortable and luxurious ride it certainly won`t dissapoint you.



It`s hard for me to toss out recommendations because I`m not sure if you`re looking in the 5-series/Infiniti M/RL range or in the 3-series/G35/TL range. I`m assuming since you own an A8 that it`s the former.



For 40k, assuming no more Audi`s and going off what`s already been mentioned the options are easy.



Acura RL (you can get them for just over 40k new now). SH-AWD is nice, interior is nice, lots of technology. Styling is a little bland and their re-sale is questionable given poor sales and high discounts. Still, it`s a 50k car for probably ~10k below msrp. Power is good but not great.



BMW 525i. 215hp 6cyl, I dunno if that`ll do it for you, but the interior is nicer than the 3-series and the ride is more comfortable. It handles really well, but that goes without saying. You mentioned not liking the new designs, I agree with you.



Infiniti M35 Sport. I`m biased, I love them. 3.5l 280/270 V6, handles about as close to a BMW as you can get without being a BMW, interior is nice but the ride is a little harsh compared to say, an RL or GS300. Re-sale is still up in the air, although initial reports are good.



If you want to get into a V8 (Another A8, GS4xx, Infiniti M45, 550i, etc... well, they`re all 10k more than the GS300 you`re considering).



Those are the ones I`d consider. I`m sure there are some domestics worth a look too, but I don`t know enough about them to say.