Finding a good body shop to fix rust spot

[db4570]

Hi, Guys



I`m a consumer that has been lurking here for a while and learning a lot about wax and clay, etc.



I have a 2009 Pathfinder that has a rust patch about the size of my hand on the rocker panel and wrapping around a bit onto the top of the door sill. It is just on the surface, and isn`t very nasty yet (bubbling, etc.), but I want to try to catch it because I plan to keep this truck for a long time, and because I live in the Northeast with harsh, wet winters and a lot of road salt.



Body shops are hesitant to take this on, and make it clear they won`t warranty rust work, which I guess I understand. One shop seemed pretty optimistic and professional and gave me an estimate that was double than where I was hoping it would be. So I want to shop around some more, but am trying to figure out how to pick a shop that will put some effort into trying to do the best job possible rather than quick and dirty.



Any suggestions on what I should look for, or what questions I should be asking, or particular products I should be insisting on? Is it true that there are some primers that are much better at preventing further rust on a car that has already seen a little rust?



I`m half tempted to rent a sandblaster and do it myself, but that final catalyzed coat and clear coat are beyond what I could handle.



Any suggestions or guidance are appreciated. Thanks!



David

[Ron Ketcham]

Sounds like the problem is normal and your reaction is normal for one who has not been exposed or educated on such repairs and concerns.

The issue is not on the surface, but under the metal.

You can remove what you can see, but the problem will still be there and will return.

I-CAR is the acknowledged body and collision repair training and prove out for repairs that is used by all the insurance companies, Ford, GM, Chrysler, almost all imports, including Nissan.

The correct repair procedures are not normally available to the general public.

However, at ValuGard.net is a Ford Motor Co. "repair process" that will show you what is required to be done to answer your concern or at least point you in the right direction.

Look under the Technical Service Bulletin, etc area.

There are even a couple of Nissan TSB`s there, but I don`t think they address your concern.

Nissan has their dealers go to the I-CAR proven out processes and procedures when they provide information to their dealers.

The site of I-CAR is a "pay" site, and such, so not open to the public.

Hope this aids you in finding the information you are seeking.

[Richard Grasa]

Where in the Northeast are you located? If anywhere near me, I can recommend a couple good body shops.

[db4570]

The issue is not on the surface, but under the metal.

You can remove what you can see, but the problem will still be there and will return.

I don`t understand how you know this. Are you saying that it is impossible for a car to get rust beginning on the outer surface?

I-CAR is the acknowledged body and collision repair training and prove out for repairs that is used by all the insurance companies, Ford, GM, Chrysler, almost all imports, including Nissan.

The correct repair procedures are not normally available to the general public.

However, at ValuGard.net is a Ford Motor Co. "repair process" that will show you what is required to be done to answer your concern or at least point you in the right direction.

I have no idea what you are talking about, or how this applies to my situation.



Ron, I have read several of your posts here, and it seems they all reference the same company and web site that it appears you are promoting. Maybe I misunderstood the mission of this site. Is it a sponsored commercial site promoting particular brands and companies? I guess I thought it was car owners and detailers and repairers providing objective advice to each other, but I may not have read deep enough to know if that`s the case.



Forgive me if I have misunderstood.



David

[db4570]

Where in the Northeast are you located? If anywhere near me, I can recommend a couple good body shops.

I`m in central Upstate NY, so a bit far from you if you`re in CT.



I`m trying to get more general tips on what I should look for in a body shop, what techniques are best, and how to make sure they are going to do the best they can on my rust. Although if anyone knows a good body shop in my neck of the woods that is great with rust, that would be good to know, too.



David

[Dan]

Ron, I have read several of your posts here, and it seems they all reference the same company and web site that it appears you are promoting. Maybe I misunderstood the mission of this site. Is it a sponsored commercial site promoting particular brands and companies? I guess I thought it was car owners and detailers and repairers providing objective advice to each other, but I may not have read deep enough to know if that`s the case.

Ron is an ex employee of Valuguard IIRC. He`s an industry veteran that isn`t trying to push anything. VG makes some great products and has intimate relationships with the domestic automakers, for good reason.

[Ron Ketcham]

David, the sources I provided you are the "absolute" processes that are required to correct and stop the condition you are experiencing.

I would assume that the technical processes and such were not actually read and condsidered, nor was the reasons, for which I took time and that I provided the link to Technical Service Bulletins that addresses the "rust/corrosive" issue which many experience, and do not have access to such.

Be it any vehicle manufacturer, or insurance company that are well known, the issue is one that has been addressed and processes presented to their employee`s, their "shops", their "dealerships", and just as exhibited so often, "no one wishes to take the time to read and consider" what is the results of the car companies, the insurance company`s, and their conduit to the the bodyshops, I-CAR.

Seems everyone is only looking for a "quick and easy" fix to a very serious concern.

[db4570]

Thanks for replying, Ken.



I still want to know why you think it is internal rust coming out and not rust that started on the exterior painted surface.



I read the Ford bulletins, and they address several different situations that don`t seem to apply to mine at all.



How do we know where the rust started? My best hypothesis is poor factory paint + cheap steel + (maybe) stone chips = bare steel + salt and moisture = rust. If it in fact did not start from inside the rocker panel, what is the best way to address that? What primers and treatments are best under finish painted surfaces?



The dealer and Nissan customer service have told me to pound sand because the car is 3000 miles out of warranty. They claim it`s stone chips that started it. So I am on my own with this.



The Valuguard products may be legit, but the anti-rust products seem to like undercoating for interior body panels, not for primer under paint.



Correct me if I`m missing something. Let`s assume your diagnosis and recommendation are correct. What then? Do I have a body shop cut off the rocker panels and remove the rust inside (if any) and then treat with these products and weld them back on? We then still have the exterior surface to deal with. What do they do with that?



Additional suggestions appreciated. Thanks!



David

[Ron Ketcham]

David, go back and read again the process.

It says that to not allow the condition to return, the affected areas must be addressed, in the case of the TSB, it does require cutting out and replacing with new metal the affected areas.

After the repair process is completed, metal wise, then an acid etch or such anti-corrosive paint material is to be applied, any painting must be completed, and then, only then, is the anti-rust compound applied. The anti-rust, rust preventative, etc, whatever the term you wish to use, is "fogged" into the cavatity, as it is a product that will continue to `creep" into any bare metal areas that may come to be due to the "cracking or such" of the paint materials.

This product is NOT UNDERCOATING, it is entirely different, it is not asphalt based, it is not a black goo, not the same.

Any exterior painted surface may be subjected to chipping by hard objects strikes, and that is what the "e-coat" is for, unless it is also struck so hard that it exposes bare metal to the corrosives of air, water, salt and mag cloride.

The paint surface at that point will allow the corrosives to "creep" under the e-coat and other paint applications, such as the surface primers, the base coat and the clearcoat. It will start to "blister", to become "detached" from the metal and will continue to do so until finally all the paint system will come loose.

That is an easy fix, just clean away the rust, etc, and reapply an acid etch primer, a surface primer and the base/clear coat.

The "real" problem is when the "corrosion" is coming from the "underside" of the panels you observe.

Over time, it "eats" from the "back side" of the metal panel and then one observes the "blistering" of the paint finish.

That is referred to as "perforation", and the only way to fix it is to get behind the metal panel and address the corrosion on that side, which one does not see from the out side.

Any of this make sense to you?

I know it is hard for people to understand this, as they usually only consider how the "paint" looks, but have no idea of how a car body is built, how many "trapping of corrosives" cavatities there are in any vehicle. The inside is where the real problems start at.

[Ron Ketcham]

David, allow me to add one other item.

Todays vehicles are "welded" with the use of mig welding robots.

Now the "chemistry" comes into play.

Any time a "weld" is done, it changes the "chemistry" of the metal at the place of the weld.

It becomes more prone to corrosion.

Which is why, little by little, more panels, etc are being bonded by adhesives rather than a metal welding process.

Metal, poor metal, not so, for an example, for the last 8 or so years, the largest selling pickup truck in the world, the Ford F series, has 9 different metals in the structure of the cab.

Nissan, Toyota, GM, Dodge, all are doing the basic same structual builds.

These are not old Italian cars being built, these companies have to meet "federal" regulations regarding safety, crush zones, etc, plus the warranty that they provide.

[Accumulator]

..Any time a "weld" is done, it changes the "chemistry" of the metal at the place of the weld.

It becomes more prone to corrosion..

Yeah, like the front passenger door welds on Mazda MPVs :mad2:

[db4570]

OK, so you agree that the rust isn`t necessarily coming from the inside, but that there`s a good chance it originated on the outside. So to perform your initial suggested repair may or may not address the problem. Not to mention that cutting body panels off my vehicle, applying a treatment and eventually welding them back on is a drastic and incredibly expensive fix for a problem we agree we have no idea exists, correct?



David

[Ron Ketcham]

Without a hands on inspection, can`t say anymore.

If you feel it is from an exterior scratch that has progressed, why not just take it to a bodyshop for repair?

The shop can actually see the concern and provide a repair suggestion.

[db4570]

Yeah, that pretty much takes us all the way back to the beginning of my post, and original question...



David