"Micro" Orange Peel

[tguil]

I had another post about repair work done on my 2012 Ram that asked about PDR on a freshly painted hood. I went back to the shop and the owner said that he would bring in a PDR "master artist" to take out the slight "wave" that can still be seen. The shop owner does most of the PDR work at his shop. He`s the boss but is still a hands-on guy. Guess he knows his limits too. :-)



OK about the "micro" orange peel. In checking out the "wave", I noticed that the whole hood and the fender which had a minor repair has orange peel like I have never seen before. It`s almost like a peach without the fuzz. It doesn`t appear to be "blushing" or "wrinkling" I only noticed it under the very good lighting. (My Ram is white and imperfections are not all that noticeable.) The orange peel (or whatever) covers the hood and the fender. From a distance and under normal lighting it is not at all noticeable. The finish appears to have good gloss.



I pointed this out to the shop owner and he said that of course they would correct it. He said that it could be corrected by wet sanding and/or compounding and then polishing. I have no problem with that.



In making the repairs to the hood and fender, only the area of the repairs were primed and base coated with a blend into the total panels. That was done quite well. Then both whole hood and whole fender were clear coated. The base coat was waterborne paint and the clear coat was solvent based. Because both the area that received base coat and the area that was only clear coated show this slight peel, I assume the problem is only in the clear coat.



As far application with this particular paint system (Spies Hecker) both base coat and clear coat are applied using a coat and a half technique. (The first coat is quite heavy, the half coat is a lighter coat.) The shop owner assured me that there is ample clear coat for correction and that the problem probably was the result of temperature and/or humidity.



After this long, round about post..... My questions.... Has anyone else ever come across something like this "micro" orange peel. I`ve had vehicles in and out of body shops for almost 50 years and have never run across it? How common is it to have to have wet sanding/compounding/polishing done on today`s hi-tech repaints? Back in the days of acrylic lacquer, it was standard operating procedure.

[David Fermani]

Every vehicle that is mass produced has orange peel. And so do ones that have been refinished. The only way to have a paint job w/o orange peel is to sand & buff it. Totally normal, and pretty simple to perform the sanding portion for a body shop. Unfortunately, they tend to suck in the final compounding/polishing steps which can negate all their work. Just be prepared for this to happen.

[bryan]

Or an orange peel removal pad David. Old schooler. Hahhah



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[togwt]

Or an orange peel removal pad David. Old schooler. Hahhah

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CarPro Orange Peel Removal Pads - are intended for professionals who are very familiar with film thickness, compounding, polishing, and the dos and don’ts of paint correction. CarPro Orange Peel Removal Pads are designed for use with a rotary polisher, average removal is approximately 5µ (0 .2Mil) - 7.5µ (0. 3 Mil)



These pads are available in two configurations: Denim (2000 Grit) and Velvet (3000 Grit) utilizing CarPro Fixer as a compound / surface lubricant. Use very little pressure and check the paint surface temperature often. These pads should only be used with proper knowledge of clear coat thickness in conjunction with a paint thickness gauge. As with any aggressive abrasion method be very cautious with factory paint.



There are two considerations; how much clear coat and how much ultra violet protection can be removed, they are not interchangeable. The following are the maximum allowable clear coat reductions the major USA car manufacturers will allow before the paint warranty becomes void; Chrysler- 0.5 Mil (12µ) Ford – 0.3 Mil (7.5 µ) GM – 0.5 Mil (12µ) (Source - Automotive International)



These pads have a very aggressive abrasive and are deceptive; they have twice the rate of cut of typical wool pads. They don`t dull the paint like sanding so it may appear you aren`t removing paint but you most certainly are.



You should initially try these on a test panel and get an idea of just how fast they remove paint. Using little or no pressure (machine weight alone) start a low 600-700 RPM and then progress to 1200 RPM, at this speed the kinetic heat produced by these pads is high so it is wise to constantly check paint surface temperature. The pad / backing plate combination is rigid an so acts in a similar way to `block sanding’, removing the high spots before the valleys, maintain the pad flat and parallel to the surface; a spritz of distilled water can be used to reduce the surface temperature, but beware of product spatter

[bryan]

Hey Jon. I have used these with a pcxp with great results. That also keeps the temps down, but may take a little longer than the rotary approach. It is still way faster than the traditional sand and compound approach. I was left with a near perfect finish with little marring to clean up. Put a big smile on my face.



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[togwt]

They definitely work well and for an experienced pro they are time efficient.



My only reservation is that in the hands of the inexperienced detailer they will cause strikethrough and/or remove an excessive amount of clear coat, negatively impacting its ultra violet (UV) protection

[David Fermani]

Could you use them to remove OP from an entire car?

[911fanatic]

Could you use them to remove OP from an entire car?

Have a look here David.

[CEE DOG]

They really do a great job at removing orange peel and some even use them just for heavy cut on really nasty repaints. We now stock in 3", 4", 5" and 6" for the denim. Velvet is available in 5".

[bryan]

Could you use them to remove OP from an entire car?

I have done 2 full cars with the denim. You will use 3-4 pads of the old style pads as they shed. Its like wetsanding in a quarter of the time.



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[bryan]

They definitely work well and for an experienced pro they are time efficient.



My only reservation is that in the hands of the inexperienced detailer they will cause strikethrough and/or remove an excessive amount of clear coat, negatively impacting its ultra violet (UV) protection

I agree Jon. One should know how to wetsand before just grabbing a pad as the same rules apply. The thing that is more dangerous about these pads is the surface stays shiny. You need the same eye you would if you were leveling paint by sanding but due to the shine never leaving one must keep a closer eye to the ongoing results. The first thing I did was a repainted gallardo mirror. Achieved the finish I wanted in about 20 minutes.



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[David Fermani]

Seems almost too incredible. I gotta try these pads! Can someone explain how the technology actually works? Does it require a special polishing liquid? Heat? Extensive back n forth passes? I just can`t quite wrap my head around this?

[bryan]

D300 and m101 mix. On a PC, not what the recommend but worked. Just buy a few and try it yourself. They are cheap to buy a few.



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[CEE DOG]

The polish is the lubricant and you can experiment with them. The way it works is similar to sanding but allows you to polish at the same time. It`s rigid enough that when used correctly it polishes the ridges off faster than it polishes the valleys.