BFMS spray wax. beading shot

**dd1101** · 10-24-2012, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Reflectiveauto

Yes...I didnt realize I had to explain that term...lol

I know what you meant, but I was trying to see how this ties in with level of protection?

**BobbyG** · 10-24-2012, 07:42 AM

BlackFire is one of those lines taking the detailing scene by storm and their spray wax is no exception.

A full line of quality products and reasonably priced....

**Todd@RUPES** · 10-24-2012, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Reflectiveauto

Todd..your so funny....

Hydrophobe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am very familiar with hydrophobic properties. In fact here is an answer I have written that explains water beading on a different forum.

Let me confuse this even more my friend...

Surface Tension affects liquids, not the actual surface the liquid is on... But external factors, such as the air and surface will effect the surface tension behavior of the liquid.

So when we say a wax gives more surface tension, this wouldn`t mean that the surface the wax is applied to actually has more tension, but rather the liquid applied over the surface will have more tension do to the interface of the two together.

If we want to get really technical, surface tension only refers to liquids and it measures how strongly the liquids are attracted to each other.

Water beading...

Water has a high surface tension, that is water is attracted to itself. When we look at water beading, the water, which is pulling itself inwards (like gravity that holds a planet together) is interacting with two different mediums, the surface it is applied to and air. Where these different mediums meet, they form a contact angle. This is because the different forces (the air-to-water, the water-to-water, and the surface-to-water) must balance. As a result forms in little droplets.

The less attracted water is to the surface it is applied to, the stronger it will bead. This isn`t due to a change in the surface tension of the water itself, but rather a change in the water natural attraction to the surface.

Does higher or lower surface tension cause water beading....

Technically neither. While chemicals can be added to the water to increase the surface tension or decrease it (increasing its pull to itself or decreasing it) the result of water beading has to do with nature balancing the water`s attraction to itself with compared to its attraction with surrounding objects.

A surface that promotes small, tight, almost spherical water beads MIMICS an increase in surface tension, but it really isn`t changing water`s attraction to itself. Instead it is decreasing its attraction to water.

My question is how exactly would you correlate hydrophobic (water beading) with protection.

Water repellency and contact angle is certainly impressive and offers a lot of benefits (both visual and physical) but I`m not sure that protection (protection from what?) is one of them.

**Todd@RUPES** · 10-24-2012, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Reflectiveauto

Yes...I didnt realize I had to explain that term...lol

You said Hydrophobic Protection and I am trying to understand what you meant by this.

Are you saying that product that has a great contact angle produces better protection and what, exactly, type of protection your referencing?

**Rocket** · 10-24-2012, 10:55 AM

Does water more water beading mean better protection?

I don`t have the the knowledge Todd or others here have but my gut tells me beading isn`t the only way to gauge protection. For instance some products have sheeting qualities more than beading qualities. I know some prefer sheeting over heading because they feel it will reduce the risk water spots and etching and the surface dries.

**Reflectiveauto** · 10-24-2012, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Todd Helme

You said Hydrophobic Protection and I am trying to understand what you meant by this.

Are you saying that product that has a great contact angle produces better protection and what, exactly, type of protection your referencing?

Yes this what Im saying...the water does not stay on the paint. We all know if water just lays on the paint it will get water spots. I know you have seen paint damaged by since there was no protection and constant rain has caused damage too the paint.

**Rsurfer** · 10-24-2012, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Reflectiveauto

Yes this what Im saying...the water does not stay on the paint. We all know if water just lays on the paint it will get water spots. I know you have seen paint damaged by since there was no protection and constant rain has caused damage too the paint.

The beads you show does not lay on the paint?

**Reflectiveauto** · 10-24-2012, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rsurfer

The beads you show does not lay on the paint?

Yes they roll off the paint..when the customer got home his car was totally dry with no water on it. Look at the angle which the water balls of water sit on the paint.

**Rsurfer** · 10-24-2012, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Reflectiveauto

Yes they roll off the paint..when the customer got home his car was totally dry with no water on it. Look at the angle which the water balls of water sit on the paint.

Does that mean you need to drive your car after every rain to get rid of the beads (water spots)?

**TroyScherer** · 10-24-2012, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Reflectiveauto

Yes this what Im saying...the water does not stay on the paint. We all know if water just lays on the paint it will get water spots. I know you have seen paint damaged by since there was no protection and constant rain has caused damage too the paint.

This is incorrect...

Water beading can actually aid in water spots and etching as the beads concentrate the contaminates in small areas. As the water evaporates it deposits the salt or whatever in that spot and the heat and sun etch it into the paint. Thus water beading can actually be a bad thing.

If you see a car that has almost never been waxed the water will lay flat across the flat surfaces. Thus spreading out the contaminates across a larger surface and reducing the etching and water spots.

In truth I wish Optimum would come out with a version of Opti-Coat that would not bead but rather spread the water and lay flat across the paint minimizing the chance for water spots and etching.

**Reflectiveauto** · 10-24-2012, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by TroyScherer

This is incorrect...

Water beading can actually aid in water spots and etching as the beads concentrate the contaminates in small areas. As the water evaporates it deposits the salt or whatever in that spot and the heat and sun etch it into the paint. Thus water beading can actually be a bad thing.

If you see a car that has almost never been waxed the water will lay flat across the flat surfaces. Thus spreading out the contaminates across a larger surface and reducing the etching and water spots.

In truth I wish Optimum would come out with a version of Opti-Coat that would not bead but rather spread the water and lay flat across the paint minimizing the chance for water spots and etching.

I can let you know the water beading are little round balls sitting on the sharpest angle since there is that barrier and water does not want to stick. A car with no protection when wet will have the water stand on the water in no consititency or standard shape like the Nanoskin Hydrophobic products that I use. My Acura RDX was appied with the Nanoskin Hydrophobic Wax and then had the Nanoskin Shield Sealant and I can tell you over the 2 weeks of having it on...water does not stay on it. There are no water spots and nothing and I mean nothing no even road contaminates sticks to it. I just wash it off and its just like I just finished giving her a full detail.

**dd1101** · 10-24-2012, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Reflectiveauto

I can let you know the water beading are little round balls sitting on the sharpest angle since there is that barrier and water does not want to stick. A car with no protection when wet will have the water stand on the water in no consititency or standard shape like the Nanoskin Hydrophobic products that I use. My Acura RDX was appied with the Nanoskin Hydrophobic Wax and then had the Nanoskin Shield Sealant and I can tell you over the 2 weeks of having it on...water does not stay on it. There are no water spots and nothing and I mean nothing no even road contaminates sticks to it. I just wash it off and its just like I just finished giving her a full detail.

Hmm silver Rdx??? Any chance you use to be on AGO, when you had the zymol soap suds thread?

**Reflectiveauto** · 10-25-2012, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by dd1101

Hmm silver Rdx??? Any chance you use to be on AGO, when you had the zymol soap suds thread?

Yes that was me...

**Old Pirate** · 10-25-2012, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by Reflectiveauto

Yes that was me...

Now I remember........

**TroyScherer** · 10-25-2012, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Reflectiveauto

I can let you know the water beading are little round balls sitting on the sharpest angle since there is that barrier and water does not want to stick. A car with no protection when wet will have the water stand on the water in no consititency or standard shape like the Nanoskin Hydrophobic products that I use. My Acura RDX was appied with the Nanoskin Hydrophobic Wax and then had the Nanoskin Shield Sealant and I can tell you over the 2 weeks of having it on...water does not stay on it. There are no water spots and nothing and I mean nothing no even road contaminates sticks to it. I just wash it off and its just like I just finished giving her a full detail.

Thats great. Obviously we all love that tight little beading that we get from applying waxes and sealants. It why we do what we do.

But I stand by my previous post that water beading has ZERO correlation on the actual level of protection or durability.

Permanon is a perfect example. When first applied the the beading and sheeting is the best I have ever seen. I`m talking water runs off the roof and hood in a light rain. But the durability in my experience is lacking and is only a few weeks at best.