BFWD durability compromised...

[CarCareMike]

Hi guys

Let me say that I`m in love with BFWD. It has an amazing look, is really really easy to apply and remove and is CRAZY slick. The problem I`m having is durability.

When I have polished friend`s cars I will finish with M205 and IPA wipe a few times throughout the session to see if it is doing what I need it to do. I don`t IPA the whole car afterwards. I then apply BFWD and call it done.

Recently performed maintenance on a vehicle that I did the above process to 2 months previous and when I washed it the BFWD on the lower panels all the way to the door handles on both sides of the car had NO protection left. No sheeting/beading nothing. The horizontal panels had some protection left but the beading was not uniform and when dried, slickness was completely gone.

What I did notice was that the look was still there. This car was garaged and not washed since I last worked on it. I know this is a contributing factor but I`ve seen better durability from Colly 845 but bought BFWD (the 2012 version) for it`s look, sheeting and (apparently) good durability. I also saw TroyScherer do a torture test on BFWD and it looked quite done at the 2 month mark.

Basically what I want to know is does BFWD need to be applied to an absolutely bare surface to bond properly (no M205)? If anyone can help with this I`d really appreciate it.

[TroyScherer]

Mike, I think you will get the absolute best durability if you would do an IPA / Eraser (My preference) wipe down before applying BFWD. By applying BFWD to a bare paint surface you will get the best bonding and thus durability.

It also seems as the the "special" polishing oils in M205 can interfere with the bonding and durability of some products?

Also what kind of driving and how much does the vehicle get used?

[BobbyG]

I agree with Troy...

This sounds like a cleanliness issue not allowing the sealant to bond to the paint therefore reducing it`s durability.

Isopropyl Alcohol dries quickly thus redepositing the contaminates back on the finish. Also, be sure to rotate your cloths. A cloth will only absorb so much liquid then it will spread rather than absorb.

Even thought CarPro Eraser contains some amount of Isopropyl Alcohol, it contains other ingredients as well. I used it for the first time on Sunday and was very impressed with the product...

Generally, I use odorless mineral spirits found at most hardware or home stores. Mineral spirits is a great product, it works extremely well, and isn`t very expensive.

[CarCareMike]

Thanks guys for the informative replies

I definitely agree that M205`s polishing oils do interfere with some products. I`ve found that waxes don`t really suffer on top of it but i`m convinced now that this is the case with BFWD.

Troy were you not disappointed in its durability in your test? (props btw for the cool test).

I`m going to use BFWD on a few clients` cars soon and want the best durability for them. I think beading and sheeting is a very strong visual aid in reassuring people that their pride and joy is protected. I will definitely do an IPA/MS wipe completely from now on.

Bobby do you find MS more aggressive on the paint than IPA and what dilution do you use it at?

[CarCareMike]

Oh and I forgot to mention the car was driven maybe maximum 50 miles per week if that and garaged. Few heavy rainfalls recently but don`t know if vehicle was exposed through all, only one that I know of.

[dd1101]

Last time I used M205 I did a IPA wipe down then BFWD. No issues.

If the surface is clean of defects use Blackfire Gloss enhancing polish then BFWD without doing a IPA

[TroyScherer]

I definitely agree that M205`s polishing oils do interfere with some products. I`ve found that waxes don`t really suffer on top of it but i`m convinced now that this is the case with BFWD.

I agree that the polishing oils in M205 don`t seems to effect Nuba waxes as much since they have their own oils in them.

Troy were you not disappointed in its durability in your test? (props btw for the cool test).

Thanks for the compliment.

In truth yes I was disappointed in the overall durability in both sealants in the test. Especially since the vehicle was barley driven and was washed with quality car wash. I may give BFWD another try this summer I suppose. But due to the ease of use and speed I think BFCS has replaced BFWD for me.

I`m going to use BFWD on a few clients` cars soon and want the best durability for them. I think beading and sheeting is a very strong visual aid in reassuring people that their pride and joy is protected. I will definitely do an IPA/MS wipe completely from now on.

I will be interested to see how this works out for you and what kind of durability you get our of BFWD.

[Todd@RUPES]

I would say that in most cases BFWD will last between 3-6 months on most cars, even with less than ideal prep work. BFWD doesn`t `need` a stripped surface for great results, although some products may cause some interference, this hasn`t really been in this case in fairly exhaustive testing.

While we know the saying that environmental factors effect wax/sealant durability. Sun light, air pollution, humidity, etc, etc, etc, and this is very true. However the paint system itself can have a large role on durability as well.

How big? Several years ago, when I first started using BFWD, I applied to both of my cars, a black HHR and a Sonata. The prep was identical, both cars sat outside, and faced pretty much identical conditions. BFWD made it about 4 months on the HHR. However the Sonata, which had a reputation for having things last a long time, easily made it 7 months, every day, in the Florida sun.

An industry insider for a well respected brand once told me they aim for optimal performance on 80-85 percent of paint systems, understanding that because of the wide variety of systems used, nothing can work perfectly on everything. This accounts (I believe) why some people love certain products on their car and why other people love others. There are plenty of reviews of BFWD lasting a long time.

I also hate to use the lack of prep as a reason for failed durability (because the people on this forum are obviously very capable). Some products don`t play as nice with certain paint systems, and given BLACKFIRE`s obvious track record of work well on a wide range of paint systems (product reviews over the last 4 years) I tend to believe this was the case.

[BobbyG]

Bobby do you find MS more aggressive on the paint than IPA and what dilution do you use it at?

Hi Mike,

No, not at all.. Mineral Spirits is mild general purpose solvent and I haven`t read where it affects the finish, providing it`s not newly painted of course.

What I like about mineral spirits is it stays wetter longer and does a better job at removing surface contaminates.....

Isopropyl Alcohol at a strong dilution has been found to swell the finish slightly. How much I really don`t know? Is it permanent, probably not but information is readily available on the Internet...

[CarCareMike]

I would say that in most cases BFWD will last between 3-6 months on most cars, even with less than ideal prep work. BFWD doesn`t `need` a stripped surface for great results, although some products may cause some interference, this hasn`t really been in this case in fairly exhaustive testing.

While we know the saying that environmental factors effect wax/sealant durability. Sun light, air pollution, humidity, etc, etc, etc, and this is very true. However the paint system itself can have a large role on durability as well.

How big? Several years ago, when I first started using BFWD, I applied to both of my cars, a black HHR and a Sonata. The prep was identical, both cars sat outside, and faced pretty much identical conditions. BFWD made it about 4 months on the HHR. However the Sonata, which had a reputation for having things last a long time, easily made it 7 months, every day, in the Florida sun.

An industry insider for a well respected brand once told me they aim for optimal performance on 80-85 percent of paint systems, understanding that because of the wide variety of systems used, nothing can work perfectly on everything. This accounts (I believe) why some people love certain products on their car and why other people love others. There are plenty of reviews of BFWD lasting a long time.

I also hate to use the lack of prep as a reason for failed durability (because the people on this forum are obviously very capable). Some products don`t play as nice with certain paint systems, and given BLACKFIRE`s obvious track record of work well on a wide range of paint systems (product reviews over the last 4 years) I tend to believe this was the case.

Thanks for the info Todd. Thinking about what you`ve said it does make sense. I found it to be weird with all the good reviews of BFWD (which is why I bought it).

To BobbyG do you dilute your Mineral Spirits?

Thanks for the help guys

[JSFM35X]

Sounds like the customer could be innocently washing with Dawn or Citrus wash or something else to strip the LSP. I have used BFWD and it is very durable on my Infiniti and Acura. Both cars sit outside 24x7. I had previously used IW845 and find BFWD to be close on durability and much better on look and feel.

Yes, I am the sicko who likes to feel the paint and smile when its slick...there is now public.