Black Fire Vs Menz ???

**Orinda Auto Detail** · 05-23-2012, 01:51 PM

So I`m staring at my shopping cart bout to place and order and before I do wondering what you guys think. I LOVE menzerna everything but I want to try BF. Here`s what I`m looking for maybe you guys can tell what products to try.
I use so much SIP its insane, the area I`m in ton of high end car with hard clears. Only thing I dont like about SIP is the IPA wipe down you usually have perfect then IPA and not so much so you gotta make quite a few pass`s. What would be the BF = or better for these.

Hd UNO I use as an middle polish a lot, dont really like it to much to cut, or finish but middle does wonders. GM paint I use it for all 3 it seems to do amazing but other wise middle polish

I use a ton 3m Finnesse, and 85rd as finishing polish. Same thing though usually takes a few pass`s inbetween IPA wipe downs.

LSP`s I use Pinnacle Sav, Pinnacle SigII, Wolfgang Fuzion, And HD poxy. Those are my Detail/Correction wax`s
For quickies clay/wax or just wax I use Megs yellow tech as its cheap and does an ok job.

Suggestions?
Thank you

**Todd@RUPES** · 05-23-2012, 02:22 PM

For a medium step polish (similar to cut as SIP)= BLACKFIRE SCR Compound. It was co-developed with Menzerna. It cuts a little faster/harder and wipes off a hair easier.

For a final polish similar to SF4500(85rd)= BLACKFIRE SCR Finishing Polish. My eye cannot tell much of a difference in the finish of both products (both amazing) but the BLACKFIRE wipes off cleaner and you can apply any BLACKFIRE sealant on top of it with out doing an IPA wipedown first for maximum bonding.

For an LSP, Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection is going to be super easy-on/off and has a unique look.

My history with BLACKFIRE actually began because of Wet Diamond AFPP. As a former, full-time, professional detailer who used to focus on long paint corrections I had grown tired of difficult LSPs and just wanted something quick n` easy. BLACKFIRE Wet Diamond was the easiest LSP I had ever used (and the fact it looked great was only a bonus).

**Orinda Auto Detail** · 05-23-2012, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Todd Helme

For a medium step polish (similar to cut as SIP)= BLACKFIRE SCR Compound. It was co-developed with Menzerna. It cuts a little faster/harder and wipes off a hair easier.

For a final polish similar to SF4500(85rd)= BLACKFIRE SCR Finishing Polish. My eye cannot tell much of a difference in the finish of both products (both amazing) but the BLACKFIRE wipes off cleaner and you can apply any BLACKFIRE sealant on top of it with out doing an IPA wipedown first for maximum bonding.

For an LSP, Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection is going to be super easy-on/off and has a unique look.

My history with BLACKFIRE actually began because of Wet Diamond AFPP. As a former, full-time, professional detailer who used to focus on long paint corrections I had grown tired of difficult LSPs and just wanted something quick n` easy. BLACKFIRE Wet Diamond was the easiest LSP I had ever used (and the fact it looked great was only a bonus).

Hey Todd think just a trial going with the BF/flex Ceramic kit since Im about to buy another flex n e way? And how does SRC handle rotary swirls? I use a rotary alot so I often am polishing out the swirls is this a good eliminator SIP usally gets them in 3-10 pass`s depending on the paint

**Stokdgs** · 05-23-2012, 06:08 PM

Jsmooth -

I cant remember what you are using, - is it a Rotary ? Are you talking about removing existing swirls here or what ?

LIke Todd above, I am always looking on improving my techniques so I can do more with less and this includes less time.

I am not the biggest fan of multiple wipedowns with ISP or anything to see what I am doing, but rather take the approach of looking at what I am doing very carefully, and determining what is to be removed (based on a criteria of several things) and what is actually removed by carefully choosing the pad and product, and keeping the amount of touching the paint with anything to the barest of minimum.

Overthinking the correction part can always lead to going places you dont need to go and using multiple products you dont need to use in my experience.

Not every vehicle can look as good as those that are corrected to the level of "show car quality", etc., and certainly, anything short of hacking it, will always be a huge improvement, right?

For example, just finished a 1989 Ferrari 348TS in Corsa Rosso Single Stage, 38k miles, had been garaged a lot but had also been treated badly with a buffer, and lots of bright white compound in every crack, etc...

The paint was not that thick when measured, and this model has a lot of sharp lines that are deadly thin of paint anyway. Think the precursor to Magnum PI Tom Selleck`s Testarossa and you have the visual image of this car.

Experimenting was out, so I used a Lake Country Hydro Tangerine, Menzerna PO203s, kept the pad moist, speed at 600, Rotary, and just enough pressure to get a nice very light cut, enough to clear up all the light scratches, etc.. The result was stunning clarity and almost all scratches out. I really like pads that are dual-purpose - cut well and finish even better..
Then followed up with another Tangerine and Menzerna PO106FA, moist pad, same speed, less pressure, Rotary. This didnt correct anymore, but further clarified the paint and further deepened the look of the red color.

Not wanting to rub any cloth on this pretty soft one-stage paint anymore, I opted for my Flex 3401VRG, L/C Crimson pad, and C/G EZ Creme Glaze, 4.5 speed, no pressure, and the result was now absolutely stunning.

No wipedowns, not needed, huge improvement, LSP carefully applied was Einszett Hartz-Glanz x 2.

Ferrari looked better than new, Client was extremely pleased, and has lined up more work on his stable of other fine vehicles.

So the point of what I am wanting to convey here is that I like to find things that can do more than one set thing ( Hydro pads, compounds that cut and finish down really nice), and adapt my technique to further improve the end result, and make less work which translates to less time in the "Lab".

Are you close at all to Cambria ? I have family there and will be driving through in the Fall...

Dan F

,

**Orinda Auto Detail** · 05-23-2012, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Stokdgs

Jsmooth -

I cant remember what you are using, - is it a Rotary ? Are you talking about removing existing swirls here or what ?

LIke Todd above, I am always looking on improving my techniques so I can do more with less and this includes less time.

I am not the biggest fan of multiple wipedowns with ISP or anything to see what I am doing, but rather take the approach of looking at what I am doing very carefully, and determining what is to be removed (based on a criteria of several things) and what is actually removed by carefully choosing the pad and product, and keeping the amount of touching the paint with anything to the barest of minimum.

Overthinking the correction part can always lead to going places you dont need to go and using multiple products you dont need to use in my experience.

Not every vehicle can look as good as those that are corrected to the level of "show car quality", etc., and certainly, anything short of hacking it, will always be a huge improvement, right?

For example, just finished a 1989 Ferrari 348TS in Corsa Rosso Single Stage, 38k miles, had been garaged a lot but had also been treated badly with a buffer, and lots of bright white compound in every crack, etc...

The paint was not that thick when measured, and this model has a lot of sharp lines that are deadly thin of paint anyway. Think the precursor to Magnum PI Tom Selleck`s Testarossa and you have the visual image of this car.

Experimenting was out, so I used a Lake Country Hydro Tangerine, Menzerna PO203s, kept the pad moist, speed at 600, Rotary, and just enough pressure to get a nice very light cut, enough to clear up all the light scratches, etc.. The result was stunning clarity and almost all scratches out. I really like pads that are dual-purpose - cut well and finish even better..
Then followed up with another Tangerine and Menzerna PO106FA, moist pad, same speed, less pressure, Rotary. This didnt correct anymore, but further clarified the paint and further deepened the look of the red color.

Not wanting to rub any cloth on this pretty soft one-stage paint anymore, I opted for my Flex 3401VRG, L/C Crimson pad, and C/G EZ Creme Glaze, 4.5 speed, no pressure, and the result was now absolutely stunning.

No wipedowns, not needed, huge improvement, LSP carefully applied was Einszett Hartz-Glanz x 2.

Ferrari looked better than new, Client was extremely pleased, and has lined up more work on his stable of other fine vehicles.

So the point of what I am wanting to convey here is that I like to find things that can do more than one set thing ( Hydro pads, compounds that cut and finish down really nice), and adapt my technique to further improve the end result, and make less work which translates to less time in the "Lab".

Are you close at all to Cambria ? I have family there and will be driving through in the Fall...

Dan F

,

Wow Dan I had to read this like 6 times lol. Well I use a combo of a rotary, flex, and 3` air DA. Usually the buffer swirls are half and half I inflict my self with a combo of a rotary, wool and compounding. Other half being the car wash litterally a couple miles up the road from me. Don`t know if its technique because I`m super careful and take my time with a rotary small sections as few pass`s as possible. And Cambria is 4 hours south. I`d make the drive though lol. I`m always trying to get better

**Stokdgs** · 05-23-2012, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Jsmooth

Wow Dan I had to read this like 6 times lol. Well I use a combo of a rotary, flex, and 3` air DA. Usually the buffer swirls are half and half I inflict my self with a combo of a rotary, wool and compounding. Other half being the car wash litterally a couple miles up the road from me. Don`t know if its technique because I`m super careful and take my time with a rotary small sections as few pass`s as possible. And Cambria is 4 hours south. I`d make the drive though lol. I`m always trying to get better

JSmooth --

Sorry, I have not been out of the "lab" for over a month (back-to-back Details), and my brain is kind of fried I guess..

I am Detailing my way from California to Texas and back in the Fall, (hoping it will help pay for the gas) so I will swing by your place on my way up from seeing mi familia down there in Cambria. Will have all my tools, etc, so maybe I can work with you on something..

I would try to stay away from wool as much as possible and only use the L/C Purple Foam Wool if you have to use any at all. I only use this stuff on really hard paint like on Airplanes, hardly ever use it on automotive paint.

Again, the pads and products that can cut and finish down really nicely are going to help you produce better quality with less final correction if needed afterwards..

You should be able to use the Rotary and not produce any swirls, etc. to have to remove later. Keep the pad flat on the surface as much as possible and never do the quick up and down passes on the edge like you see being done so wrong on shows like Chasing Classic Cars, and stuff.
That kind of technique will leave swirls in the paint.
Remember that the edge of the pad spins faster than the middle of the pad, so you need to know how to manage that. You use the upper edge flat on a surface to cut faster and then the middle of the pad to help smooth it all out.
With smaller pads (I only use 5.5") it can still be done if you want to do it.

Learn how to help the machine work for you, not against you.

Since I will be heading North on 101 after I leave Cambria, I will find you and maybe I can help you with some work. I will have everything with me except my Mytee HP60 Extractor as it will take up too much room in my Jeep.

You are doing great !!! Keep up the great work !!!
Dan F

**Todd@RUPES** · 05-24-2012, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmooth

Hey Todd think just a trial going with the BF/flex Ceramic kit since Im about to buy another flex n e way? And how does SRC handle rotary swirls? I use a rotary alot so I often am polishing out the swirls is this a good eliminator SIP usally gets them in 3-10 pass`s depending on the paint

Depending on the depth of the swirl marks (and pad choice) both SCR Compound and SRC Finishing Polish will take out varying degrees of buffer swirls.

**Orinda Auto Detail** · 05-24-2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Stokdgs

JSmooth --

Sorry, I have not been out of the "lab" for over a month (back-to-back Details), and my brain is kind of fried I guess..

I am Detailing my way from California to Texas and back in the Fall, (hoping it will help pay for the gas) so I will swing by your place on my way up from seeing mi familia down there in Cambria. Will have all my tools, etc, so maybe I can work with you on something..

I would try to stay away from wool as much as possible and only use the L/C Purple Foam Wool if you have to use any at all. I only use this stuff on really hard paint like on Airplanes, hardly ever use it on automotive paint.

Again, the pads and products that can cut and finish down really nicely are going to help you produce better quality with less final correction if needed afterwards..

You should be able to use the Rotary and not produce any swirls, etc. to have to remove later. Keep the pad flat on the surface as much as possible and never do the quick up and down passes on the edge like you see being done so wrong on shows like Chasing Classic Cars, and stuff.
That kind of technique will leave swirls in the paint.
Remember that the edge of the pad spins faster than the middle of the pad, so you need to know how to manage that. You use the upper edge flat on a surface to cut faster and then the middle of the pad to help smooth it all out.
With smaller pads (I only use 5.5") it can still be done if you want to do it.

Learn how to help the machine work for you, not against you.

Since I will be heading North on 101 after I leave Cambria, I will find you and maybe I can help you with some work. I will have everything with me except my Mytee HP60 Extractor as it will take up too much room in my Jeep.

You are doing great !!! Keep up the great work !!!
Dan F

That would be sooo cool!! And this may sound rookie of considering I got like a couple thousand cars of experience under my belt but I`ve never compounded a car with a rotary and not inflicted halo`s so thats new to me!!! And yeah I have everything extractor included! Let me know when it closer dates wise and i`ll set up some cars to help with gas money lol. THANKS DAN!!!