New product or New packaging?

[Crodad1]

Blackfire Midnight Sun Batch #25 Carnauba Paste

new product? new Packaging? Higher price?
Or is this a new marketing strategy?
Less product, new box, $20.00 higher price or am I wrong?

[BobbyG]

The jury`s still out.

I heard that BlackFire is updating its product line and this could be formulations which might mean an increase in price.

The only difference that`s apparent today is the new packaging but there may be something more to it.

[Crodad1]

The jury`s still out.

I heard that BlackFire is updating its product line and this could be formulations which might mean an increase in price.

The only difference that`s apparent today is the new packaging but there may be something more to it.

My opinion only;
It`s called GREED!

[Rocket]

If changes were made to the formula and it`s improved then why wouldn`t there be an increase in price? It costs to go into the lab and reformulate a product

[GearHead_1]

Maybe the sales plan has a bunch of BOGO events in the forecast, who knows? Perhaps they`re trying to slip it into the realm of competing premium waxes by the nature of its pricing. PBMG doesn`t seem to have any problem moving Pinnacle Souveran Paste. Sometimes pricing is not so much a matter of what you have but what you compete against. Successful marketers are able to determine exactly where the threshold of pain is and still move significant quantity of product. It`s a simple matter of people loving the product, they sure seem to love this one and their willingness to pay a few bucks more. Where better than right here to see what the market will bear? On the other hand there just might be an aluminum tub and t-wrench inside that small plastic satchel.

Rock On BlackFire!

[Todd@RUPES]

Blackfire Midnight Sun Batch #25 Carnauba Paste

new product? new Packaging? Higher price?
Or is this a new marketing strategy?
Less product, new box, $20.00 higher price or am I wrong?

All three.

The formula of Midnight Sun was been tweaked and improved.

The packaging has changed and the container has gotten bigger. The previous wax was 7 ounces, the new Midnight Sun is 7.4 ounces.

With the old formula in the smaller package you could easily get 25 applications of premium wax. The previous kit price was $69.99, which equated to $2.80 per application. A value in the premium wax world.

With the new formula and increased container size you should be able to easily get 27 applications, which is $2.98 per wax application, not including the increase in quality of the included microfiber towel.

[Crodad1]

All three.

The formula of Midnight Sun was been tweaked and improved.

The packaging has changed and the container has gotten bigger. The previous wax was 7 ounces, the new Midnight Sun is 7.4 ounces.

With the old formula in the smaller package you could easily get 25 applications of premium wax. The previous kit price was $69.99, which equated to $2.80 per application. A value in the premium wax world.

With the new formula and increased container size you should be able to easily get 27 applications, which is $2.98 per wax application, not including the increase in quality of the included microfiber towel.

Not trying to argue the point, but what new formula.I have not seen any advertizement or talk about NEW formula. Is there anyone that had used this new formula? Anyone done any product evaluation? The OLD formula was available for $59.00 just about everywhere that has the product.

[GearHead_1]

A 30% increase over typical street price is a good chunk relative to any product.

The formula of Midnight Sun was been tweaked and improved.

Isn`t that something that has happened with some frequency as each new batch is released? I always assumed that was the reason they list the batch number on the product. Is the listed MSRP what people can expect the "street price" to be? Does "tweaked and improved" equate to higher manufacturing costs (beyond volume) resulting in higher retail price?

[Paul Sparks]

Got any of batch #24 left. You can keep the towel. I love this stuff but $80.00 is over my limit.

[C. Charles Hahn]

A 30% increase over typical street price is a good chunk relative to any product.



Isn`t that something that has happened with some frequency as each new batch is released? I always assumed that was the reason they list the batch number on the product. Is the listed MSRP what people can expect the "street price" to be? Does "tweaked and improved" equate to higher manufacturing costs (beyond volume) resulting in higher retail price?

This is what happens when you pair the PBMG marketing methodology (brand engineer and periodically hype slight tweaks as "new and improved" to move a volume of product) with a product line that was previously managed by CMA under a somewhat different philosophy.

Just the realities of a changed approach to doing business behind the brand. I think what would really be interesting to hear is where they are attempting to position this brand among the rest of the portfolio (DP, Pinnacle, Wolfgang). That might explain more of the reasoning for the price point.

[FourEyes45]

Does it only come in a kit????

[Rfulmer]

I think what would really be interesting to hear is where they are attempting to position this brand among the rest of the portfolio (DP, Pinnacle, Wolfgang). That might explain more of the reasoning for the price point.

I wondered the same thing. They are getting so many "house" brands that it`s getting confusing as to which brand is at the bottom and at the top of the PBMA totem pole. I start to wonder if there can really be that much difference between em.

[GearHead_1]

I wondered the same thing. They are getting so many "house" brands that it`s getting confusing as to which brand is at the bottom and at the top of the PBMA totem pole. I start to wonder if there can really be that much difference between em.

Can`t say I haven`t wondered the same thing but I hope it doesn`t lead to the demise of Pinnacle. I like to believe and perhaps I`m deluded in doing so that PMBG is big enough to accommodate such a vast line up.

This is what happens when you pair the PBMG marketing methodology (brand engineer and periodically hype slight tweaks as "new and improved" to move a volume of product) with a product line that was previously managed by CMA under a somewhat different philosophy.

End of the day, one of these two companies is still in business.

[Bunky]

This is what happens when you pair the PBMG marketing methodology (brand engineer and periodically hype slight tweaks as "new and improved" to move a volume of product) with a product line that was previously managed by CMA under a somewhat different philosophy.

I think we have seen price increases creeping in new formulations at PBMG. The XMT spray wax/soap came out in 12 oz. sizes (not a useful size for any person that details much) with pricing as much as 16 oz or larger. In some cases, this may be the result of everyone demanding these BOGO`s...the cost has to be accounted for somewhere.

[C. Charles Hahn]

Can`t say I haven`t wondered the same thing but I hope it doesn`t lead to the demise of Pinnacle. I like to believe and perhaps I`m deluded in doing so that PMBG is big enough to accommodate such a vast line up.

It wouldn`t necessarily surprise me to see a thinning of the herd at some point... General Motors was theoretically "big enough" to accommodate the vast line up of brands it once had, yet we`re left looking at Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Hummer, Saturn, and SAAB only in the history books.

There was always a lot of overlap of products in those brands, and the same is becoming increasingly true of PBMG`s various lines, so one can`t help but draw a comparison.

End of the day, one of these two companies is still in business.

Very true, and that`s kinda what I was getting at. Long time followers of Blackfire are obviously noticing the change in terms of how things are being handled, and it really highlights the fundamental differences in approach between the two companies, for better or worse. Obviously CMA wasn`t a total failure, considering the amount of brand equity they were able to cultivate in Blackfire.