Midnight Sun

**Todd@RUPES** · 01-10-2012, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by milky

I`m one of the excited ones and have yet to try mine, is there any feedback on durability (as a stand- alone and with BFWD)?

I have gotten about between 2 to 3 months, stand-alone, in the Florida sun.

**Merlin** · 01-10-2012, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Todd Helme

I have gotten about between 2 to 3 months, stand-alone, in the Florida sun.

How is it with BFWD or the BFWD/BFMS combo?

**njs619** · 01-11-2012, 01:28 AM

I have a question it may have already been ask. when using the wet ice over fire, do you use another coat of bfwd over the bfms? Thank you

**rzatch** · 01-11-2012, 01:34 AM

No, you use the sealant and then you top it with the Blackfire Midnight Sun. You could if you want add a second layer of MS.

**Merlin** · 01-11-2012, 07:07 AM

For that deep look that appears like you could jump into the paint.
I like using 2-3 coats of BFWD followed by 2-3 coats of BFMS.

NOTE: You can apply a wax over sealant but not a sealant over wax.

**CT3** · 01-11-2012, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Todd Helme

I have gotten about between 2 to 3 months, stand-alone, in the Florida sun.

Is this on a daily driver, and something that sits out in the sun regularly?

**Todd@RUPES** · 01-11-2012, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by njs619

I have a question it may have already been ask. when using the wet ice over fire, do you use another coat of bfwd over the bfms? Thank you

With most products once you put the wax on (and the paint is coated in wax) most synthetic sealants are going to have a hard time bonding, curing, or being effective if they are applied afterwards.

This is kinda true with BLACKFIRE (let me explain).

Both BLACKFIRE Wet Diamond (All Finish Paint Protection) and BLACKFIRE Midnight Sun have `wet diamond` polymers. They use the same blend of three polymers, but in vastly different numbers.

At the time Midnight Sun was being developed (originally called Wet Diamond Wax) the popular combination to use was Klasse AIO/SG layered with either P21s (for light colors) or Pinnacle Souveran (for dark colors). These waxes worked great on top of Klasse. When BLACKFIRE introduced the upgraded All Finish Paint Protection (which became the now famous Wet Diamond series) we found that a lot of waxes would not `bond` or adhere to the new super-slippery sealant.

Here is a picture of the original BLACKFIRE Wax (look closely, you can see it is called Wet Diamond)

In order to get a wax to really adhere over the Wet Diamond sealant we had to add some polymers to the formulation, and Midnight Sun was born. It was, to my knowledge, the first premium carnauba wax to use a blend of polymers and wax.

So can you apply Wet Diamond sealant over Midnight Sun Carnuaba wax? The short answer is yes, you can, but you will not be getting the maximum benefit of sealant. It will bond (in part) to the polymers present in the wax, but the amount of bonding is going to be substantially less then if you applied it to paint or on-top of itself.

Lets say you put the sealant down and top it with the wax. You decide that ultimately you like the sealant better and want to continue with just adding sealant. How long should you wait? You can start applying more sealant (even on top of the wax) as soon as you want. How much the sealant bonds is going to increase over time as the wax goes away. You will not have any adverse effects, and as time passes you will get more and more effect from the sealant until the wax is gone and you have a pure sealant finish.

It`s just the effect from the additional sealant will be somewhat buffered until the wax is gone, but there will still be some benefit.

**rzatch** · 01-11-2012, 10:40 AM

Great explanation Todd

It sure does help having someone on here that really knows the products and how to use them best.

**Todd@RUPES** · 01-11-2012, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Merlin

How is it with BFWD or the BFWD/BFMS combo?

Its really hard to say. The wax will add some protection to the sealant so you should increase durabillity vs. just using the sealant by itself. Even with the wax on top the sealant `underneath` is still going to degrade (for example the paint`s constant heat cycling can disipate the bonding to some degree, even if the polymers are stable to excess of 400 degrees). I have gotten between 2 and 3 months of Midnight Sun by itself and between 4-6 months of Wet Diamond by itself, combined you may see about a 10% longer life.

**Merlin** · 01-11-2012, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Todd Helme

Its really hard to say. The wax will add some protection to the sealant so you should increase durabillity vs. just using the sealant by itself. Even with the wax on top the sealant `underneath` is still going to degrade (for example the paint`s constant heat cycling can disipate the bonding to some degree, even if the polymers are stable to excess of 400 degrees). I have gotten between 2 and 3 months of Midnight Sun by itself and between 4-6 months of Wet Diamond by itself, combined you may see about a 10% longer life.

Excellent that should be fine.

**milky** · 01-11-2012, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Todd Helme

I have gotten about between 2 to 3 months, stand-alone, in the Florida sun.

Thank you Todd, I appreciate it! It`s great to have someone who knows it best.

Sounds great then- I was thinking that if it lasted for 3 weeks, is okay by me

looks like it`s going to be on the staple shelf!

**Todd@RUPES** · 01-11-2012, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Merlin

Excellent that should be fine.

Glad to help!

Originally Posted by milky

Thank you Todd, I appreciate it! It`s great to have someone who knows it best.

Sounds great then- I was thinking that if it lasted for 3 weeks, is okay by me

looks like it`s going to be on the staple shelf!

You are very welcome!

**Van185** · 01-13-2012, 10:09 AM

I agree that haveing someone on here like Todd to let us know how products work and the right way to apply them is a great benifit. I have my opinions from using certain products but they are just opinions. I learn alot ever time that I read a post from experts in the field. I am just a beginner who enjoys detailing.

**Todd@RUPES** · 01-13-2012, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Van185

I agree that haveing someone on here like Todd to let us know how products work and the right way to apply them is a great benifit. I have my opinions from using certain products but they are just opinions. I learn alot ever time that I read a post from experts in the field. I am just a beginner who enjoys detailing.

Thank you very much, I cannot tell you I enjoy doing what I do!

**njs619** · 01-26-2012, 09:33 PM

Thank you Todd. Todd the only reason I ask about topping it with another coat of sealant is cause I have a close friend who works for Chemical Guys and he says he always puts the sealant over the Carnuaba wax to lock everything in. Also Todd how much time do I need to wait before O put the mscw over the bfwd? Thank you