newbie question on hand removing swirls

[87 Monte SS]

Hello - I am the new guy on DC. I have been reading/harvesting knowledge from here for about two weeks, and see that most everyone on here is really cool, so I finally registered. Glad to be here!

My situation - I am a detailing newbie that is trying to remove some light to medium scratches and swirls from my black 87 SS by hand using Meguiars Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner and a Meg yellow foam pad. I spent about 45 minutes on the trunk lid and one quarter panel alone, and it still isnt where I want it to be.

Question is, am I wasting my time trying this by hand? Should I just buy a PC and be done with it? Which one is the best (i.e. - most features for the buck) : the 7336, 7335, or 7424?

I also ordered some AIO, UPP and P21S from P.A.C. Should I try to get most of these scratches and swirls out BEFORE using these products, or will the AIO help to do this on its own? Any advice is MOST appreciated....


Thanks in advance for your help guys!

Brian

[Don]

While removing the scratches/swirls by hand in not impossible, it is certainly labor intensive. The Porter Cable buffers are all exactly the same. The different "part numbers" are merely used to describe the options fitted to that individual buffer.

With the P/C, using the Meguiars paint cleaner followed by either the #9 Swirl Mark Remover, #82 Swirl Free Polish, or the Step 2 polish (consumer line) will eliminate the swirls and give you the look you are wanting and prep the surface for the AIO/UPP.

[NattyBumppo]

Originally posted by 87 Monte SS
My situation - I am a detailing newbie that is trying to remove some light to medium scratches and swirls from my black 87 SS by hand using Meguiars Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner and a Meg yellow foam pad. I spent about 45 minutes on the trunk lid and one quarter panel alone, and it still isnt where I want it to be.
Brian

Hi Brian, welcome to DC! First of all you do not NEED a PC. It certainly helps things move along quicker and with a bit less effort but folks have been doing this stuff by hand for an awfully long time and it still works today.

I`ve never used the Deep Crystal Cleaner but have heard it is pretty mild stuff which is fine. But, the combination of a mild polish with a very mild pad (thos yellow Megs pads) makes for minimal cutting strength which you`ll need to correct the problems.
Try the Deep Crystal Polish with a microfiber rag or corner of a 100% coton terry towel. The towel will provide a little more bite to work the polish into the finish. If that doesn`t help you`ll most likely need to step up the abrasive scale with the product.

Like Don said, Meguiars #9 (or #82 Swirl Free Polish from their Body Shop Line) is very good light duty swirl remover that works well by hand but again, it`s pretty light duty stuff. Moving up a bit more is their Speed Glaze and even more their Light Cut Cleaner or Dual Action Cleaner Polish. Another good product is 3M Perfect It-II Light Cut Compound.

If you do move up the abrasive scale go back to your yellow foam pad as now the product can do the work instead of the pad or your arms. If it still doesn`t get it like you want it, try the terry again with the same product.

Good luck.

Natty

[87 Monte SS]

Wow, thanks Don and Natty for the quick replies - this board rules!

OK, so if I use Meg #9 I should use a terry cloth applicator, or will that be too much - can the yellow Megs pad take out the medium scratches without leaving swirls in the process?

That leads me to a couple more Q`s...

How much pressure should I apply to the pad, and should it be wet or dry to begin? I am afraid of doing more harm than good, because the paint is super smooth and glossy as it is, but the swirls and a few scratches are driving me insane.... I think I am becoming obsessive LOL!

Also, I have read that when working the sides of the car, it is best to apply up to down, rather than side to side, and definitely not in a circular motion - is this just a matter of preference or is there some truth to this?

Thanks again!

Brian

[CharlesW]

Welcome Brian:
Just one thing, do a small section at a time and check your work. Too many people do their entire car and then find out they made a mess that is a lot of work to correct.
If you practice on the small section, when you have your technique figured out you can move on to the rest of the car.

[NattyBumppo]

Good point Charles!

Brian,

If you move a step up start with the little yellow pad first and check the work. If you fell more bite is needed then repeat with the terry. The lround Megs foam pads provide almost no bite at all and are very safe to use. As for wet or dry pad, check the label on the product but safe to say you could spritz the pad a LITTLE to try it first. Too much water can make some products turn gummy and be difficult to buff off.

Pressure....let the product do the work. You shouldn`t have to apply to much pressure if you`ve got the right product/applicator combo. Lighten up on the pressure even more as the product begins to work in and dry.

Direction....working sides of the car follow the lines of the vehicle as it was painted....front to back not circular and certainly not up and down. You`re trying to remove swirls and scratches not create them.

It is impossible for anyone to tell you the least abrasive product you`ll need for your situation without seeing it. You`re going to have to find that out on your own. I can tell you that Megs #9 most likely will not remove a "medium" scratch. For that you`ll probably need the Megs DACP or 3M Perfect It-II. If you go to those products you`ll need to follow them up with something like Megs #9 as the more abrasive products (most notably compounds) can leave some haze especially on darker colors.

If you buy the #9 and try it but it doesn`t do all you want I`m sure it won`t go to waste. Keeping a product like #9 around will always come in handy.

Lastly, there are some scratches you just won`t be able to get out. If you can feel them with your fingernail forget it. Even if you can`t feel them if they are fairly deep into the clear you basically need to remove clear coat to the level of the scratch in order to correct the problem. As you can imagine, you need to make a call as to how much are you willing to abrade away in order to remove a few problem spots.

Natty

[87 Monte SS]

Charles - thanks for that tip....its what I usually do anyway, just to be safe.

Natty - Thank you for all the tips and advice. I have been misinformed of the direction to apply anything to the finish... Jeez, its a good thing I asked!

The #9 will probably be the best thing to use by the sounds of things. Of course, I am fairly certain that my SS has a single stage enamel paint, not clear coat, but I am not 100% certain of that. In any event, I think I will try Meg #9, or if that doesn`t work that well, the 3M PI-II or III, although I was under the impression that those 3M products were to be machine applied only...

One other thing that has been intriguing me (and its really not related to this thread, but, I digress...) - the more I read on here about using a PC or even a variable speed Makita rotary, the more I want to just buy one and make my life easier. If I used the 3M PI-III with a rotary on a low speed setting, would that be a safe alternative to all of the hand labor to acheive a superior result?

Yes, I DO realize the damage that a rotary is capable of - I have seen it firsthand, so I know better than to use anything more aggressive than Meg #9 or 3M PI-III with a finishing pad at low speed at first till I get the hang of it. The reason I say this is because I have seen a couple other threads stating that once you use a rotary, there is no turning back in terms of the quality of the results, and it piqued my interest.... Opinions? Thanks!!

Brian

[NattyBumppo]

Originally posted by 87 Monte SS
I am fairly certain that my SS has a single stage enamel paint, not clear coat, but I am not 100% certain of that. In any event, I think I will try Meg #9, or if that doesn`t work that well, the 3M PI-II or III, although I was under the impression that those 3M products were to be machine applied only...
Brian

If you`ve ever used a polish or compound before on that car did you notice any of the paint color bleeding onto the applicator? If so, then it probably is single stage paint. Good catch! I should have paid more attention to the year of the vehicle! One way to find out for sure would be to give the VIN# and paint code (if youknow it) to a body shop and they can tell you for sure what type it is.

Also, check on the 3M Perfect It III before you buy. If I`m not mistaken it is a new formula specifically meant for clears....like I said, I`m not 100% sure of that.

As for the rotary, I`m somewhat of a newb there. Only been using the rotary since January but I can tell you I love it! I do find results are faster and better but it only comes out on finishes that need it (except for my truck since I`m always experimenting LOL). I don`t consider myself good enough to break out the rotary on a customers vehicle where the finish just doesn`t require it. I figure why invite trouble when the PC D.A. will do the job fine.

The rotary can be helpful but sa you said, can also be a disaster in the making. If you feel you need it go for it. I would suggest going with the PC 7424 first. After all, they don`t have to be mutually exclusive. It makes perfectly good sense to have both as they both have their strengths.

Natty

[socaltiger]

I`ve recently tried to remove swirls by hand and did not get the results I was looking for but I was trying to remove swirls on a 5 year old car.I`m going to get the PC from my local Lowes or from Premium board sponsor if I can get them to match Lowes price (Support the Board sponsor).

[CharlesW]

One thing that people many times don`t consider is the cost of running around to several stores to get a better price. My buying classification is somewhere between price shopper and cheap-skate. If you do a lot of chasing around, the transportation costs definitely affect the overall price. The fact that internet purchases have no sales tax in my area makes a difference as well. Whether or not your time is worth anything to you is pretty much up to the individual.

[Don]

Originally posted by CharlesW
If you do a lot of chasing around, the transportation costs definitely affect the overall price. The fact that internet purchases have no sales tax

You sound like the old commercial "let your fingers do the walking..." but you are exactly right. It can get expensive driving from place to place `bargain hunting.` Besides the lack of sales taxes in some areas, the internet allows you to "shop" at stores all over the country/world where you would never be able to `drive by & have a peek.`

The ability to price hunt, shop & buy without the aggrevation of traffic, other shoppers, wasting gasoline etc etc far outweighs shipping costs.

[NattyBumppo]

Originally posted by socaltiger
I`ve recently tried to remove swirls by hand and did not get the results I was looking for but I was trying to remove swirls on a 5 year old car.I`m going to get the PC from my local Lowes or from Premium board sponsor if I can get them to match Lowes price (Support the Board sponsor).

Be sure to get a list of other "stuff" you need to make your order hit the $75.00 mark so you get free shipping. That, coupled with the no sales tax is a wonderful thing!

Natty