Props to Clean Dean, Anthony O., and other rotary experts

[jason rawls]

Today I finally had some time to go outside and get some serious rotary practicing done. I figured I`d start with the back of my truck since its a vertical panel and probably has more clearcoat to work with than the horizontal panels. Plus since it`s a hatchback I could lift it to check it for swirls in the sun. Here`s a picture of what I had to deal with.

After about two or three hours of trying every combination of products, pads, and speeds I could think of, the only thing I figured out was that SSR`s are much easier to remove than Meg`s polishes. I still have just as many swirls as when I started. :ticked

I had SSR 2.5, SSR1, DACP, Speed Glaze, #9, and a yellow, green, and blue Edge pad, plus a PC. I tried everything I could think of with these products from stepping up to stepping down and I still have swirls.

I`m wondering if I`ll be able to teach myself how to remove swirls with a rotary without driving myself crazy. Has anybody else been in the same situation I`m in now? Any suggestions?

[AtlantaBoy]

What speed did you work those products in at? If you had to remove product, then it sounds as though you didn`t work them long enough. I use alot of Meg`s, 3M and Malco stuff and I have found that I have to work the Meg`s products longer and until it dusts.

[kimwallace]

If the marks in the picture are what you still saw after buffing:
You probably didn`t work the DACP or SSR 2.5 long enough (Yellow Pad)
When I buff using these products I work in about a 2 x 2 area making several passes at about 1600 RPM until the product starts to dry ... wipe off with a MF and if needed repeat the process on that same area until the swirls are gone. Both of these products have diminishing abrasives which make them safe to use on clearcoat but sometimes they diminish or breakdown before the swirls are removed.
Try working on a small area and if using the yellow pad you will probably get a slight hazing. That is OK (actually a good thing because that is an indicator that the product and pad is doing its work) just follow up with #9 or SSR 1 to restore the shine.

[jason rawls]

From what I could tell the SSR`s broke down and dusted very quickly (perhaps too quickly), but I couldn`t get the Meg`s polishes to dust the same way. It seemed like all they did was dry and cake up rather than dust no matter how long I worked them in. I didn`t want to keep buffing when the product was dry so I stopped and tried to remove it.

This was my process: First I sprayed the pad one or two times with water, then applied an X to pad and spread it onto the surface with the rotary off. I set the rotary to about 1500 rpm`s, and moved it very slowly across the surface trying to keep the pad flat. I can`t really tell what I`m doing wrong but I have a feeling that I`m creating more swirls with the buffer than I`m taking out.

[kimwallace]

The water on the pad may be part of the problem. The water can actually change the cutting characteristics of the product. When trying a product for the first time I leave the pad dry. As I develop a feel for what I am using, then if needed I will just lightly dust the pad with water or Meguiars Final Inspection. I have found that I need to do that more with a wool pad. Try increasing the speed a little bit. While you are getting the hang of it, for safety`s sake, I would stay away from the edges and ridges of the panel you are working on. Once you get it down you can come back and touch up those areas if needed.

[ron`s]

Jason have you tried lake country pads? The edge pads swirled my wifes expedition. I used them one time. The lake country pads are far better IMO.
Looks like tou need a pass with an orange pad then a pass with a polishing pad and one more with a finishing pad I dont use porboys or any of the gummy megs. products. I would sugest using your PB products, The least agressive to start with the orange pad if you decide to try these pads. I like the smaller 6" pads at slower speeds od dark colored cars.
Why dont you go to a body shop and pickup a junk hood to work on. If you go to one that works on alot of BMWs you can find some good hoods.


Good Luck

[Clean Dean]

Swirl removal... I have had some great results with DACP and the Edge Green pad (especially on non-metalic flat black). I like the less aggressive green pad, although you do have to work DACP until it dusts. I recently buffed out a black 1963 Caddilac Deville Inside under some great lighting conditions. The combination of DACP and the green pad really took out some pretty harsh swirls. I spent about 4 hours trying to restore the cars finish and I needed to re-wash the car completely after buffing, because of the amount of dust created. I finished of the car with #82 and a white Edge Pad and it really came out glossy and swirl free.
jason rawls, My guess would be that you will see much more effective results by working the product longer and at slower speeds. My experience with detailers that are new to rotary use leads me to believe that the fear of grinding or "burning" the paint causes them to not effectively work the product long enough on the finish. Effective buffing has a lot to do with "feel" as well as product use.

Here is the Caddie ... ENJOY !!!

http://www.ebizautos.com/fischermoto...cfm?iid=479586

[jason rawls]

Well I changed up a couple of things with my process and have gotten much better results. I put on a velcro backing plate and switched to the CMA pads that I use on my PC. I started off with a yellow cutting pad and some DACP, and set my rpm`s to about 1200. Now the rotary seemed a lot easier to control and didn`t skip at all. It also didn`t leave any major buffer swirls. I worked the DACP until it dusted but still had some problems removing all of it. Maybe it`s because I was working out in the sun and it was too hot.

I tried the SSR 2.5 for the heck of it and found it much easier to work with. I`m not too happy about the way the SSR`s are priced but for now I think I`m going to stick with them and maybe try the Meg`s products when it cools down some more. I followed up with a white polishing pad and SSR 1 at about 1500 rpm`s and have achieved better results - not perfect but better.

Clean Dean, I know you get great results with the Edge pads but for some reason they are not working well for me. I think that part of the reason is they are too big (9.5 inces). Nice Caddy by the way!

Results with new process:

[NYV6Coupe]

jason:

Have you tried the 8" LC tufted foam pads?

I`ve used a yellow tufted pad (to chicken to mount a wool pad on the rotary) with great success with SSR2.5 & Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover at 1100 & finished at 1300. Also used FPII & Pinnacle Swirl Remover on a white tufted pad at 1100.

One of the cars I did was my Dad`s black Mercury & I got everything out but the deepest scratches and there was no need to do a final pass with a polishing pad on a PC.

Very nice pads to use when you`re starting out with a rotary & you`re concerned with damaging the surface. Maybe this is why some other experienced people suggested you didn`t work the products enough for them to breakdown, `cause you`re concentrating on not damaging your paint while trying to remove imperfections.

The pads are kind of like baby steps when working your way (and your confidence) up to wool pads.

ScottP at specialtymotoring.com has some.

[zainoshine]

Do you think the Pinnacle products produce equal results to Menzerna`s swirl removers?

Carl

[ron`s]

You made an improvement keep at it. Try to stay out of the sun that black really holds alot of Heat. You dont want to get the paint to hot.

[NYV6Coupe]

Do you think the Pinnacle products produce equal results to Menzerna`s swirl removers?

Carl

zainoshine: I`ve used IP & FPII but not with the rotary so my answer is I`d assume the results would be equal but that`s a qualified answer `cause I`ve used the Menzerna products only with a PC.

I took the Pinnacle products to do my Dad`s car because of results I saw on a black `40 Ford done by mattZ28. My Dad`s black Mercury was a good test `cause it`s not maintained as a black car should be maintained.

Stands to reason if IP & FPII yield excellent results with a PC, they should perform as well if not better with a rotary.