Federal rule bans resid. washing

**freedre** · 07-01-2004, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by OI812
Ok I will bit on this one. That would be darn hard to enforce. SSEA (storm sewer enforcement agency) would have to be on every corner.

Don`t kid yourself on it being hard to enforce. My neighbourhood is full of water nazis and tree huggers. Every time I put my car in the driveway, someone is on the phone to the water police. I am on a first name basis with most of them, they have been here so many times.

I started with the inflatable `kiddy pool` idea to trap my water. This was blessed by the water gestapo, but I quickly found that I was putting holes in the floor of the pool on the rough surface of my asphalt driveway. I switched to 6 mil poly (the type you use in your house as a vapour barrier). I cut off a piece and park my Honda on top of it (it fits quite well) and I put those `swimming pool` spaghetti things (that kids play with in the water) around the edges and - voila - I have a 4" deep plastic reservoir.

Pump the water out when you are done and put it in 5 gallon plastic jerry cans and flush it down the toilet. It takes about 15 gallons to wash and rinse my Honda.

The water guys took some pictures to use to show the other criminals in the area how to avoid prosecution.

PS - I agree with the bylaw. I don`t think we need to add anything more to whatever is allready going into our rivers and streams.

**OI812** · 07-01-2004, 09:24 PM

I do not disagree with water shed run off or the pollutants that are getting into the lakes. I`m not going to go hug a tree now. Get to the major sources of run off. The average joe detailing is not causing 90% or even 10% of the pollutants going into are lakes and streams. Yes phosphorus is extemely damaging to lakes and other water sources. Who is putting more pollutants into our water sources the guy detailing or say a farmer spreading NPK (nitrogen, phosphorus, pottasium) on his field. What about the average home owner putting fertilizer on his lawn. Most areas around the country still allow "P" in the fertilizer. Bans are now coming out against "P" in fertilizer along with laundry detergent. We do need to protect our water sources. Go after the major sources of pollutants, such as oil off of asphalt, concrete curing agents, used oil from cars, antifreeze from motor vehicles, etc. , etc. etc. These are far more harmful then some soap from car washing in my drive way. Remember the big oil spill in Alaska? Granted that is an extreme example. The next time you have your boat on the water look behind the engine--notice the nice colors forming on the water. Do we think that is less damaging then washing your car? Sure wouldn`t want to stop that pollutant. Water shed is important, and we do need to protect our waters. If you ban washing vehicles now what is next?

**keeotee** · 07-01-2004, 09:36 PM

Stranger than fiction.

**freedre** · 07-02-2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by OI812
I do not disagree with water shed run off or the pollutants that are getting into the lakes. I`m not going to go hug a tree now. Get to the major sources of run off. The average joe detailing is not causing 90% or even 10% of the pollutants going into are lakes and streams. Yes phosphorus is extemely damaging to lakes and other water sources. Who is putting more pollutants into our water sources the guy detailing or say a farmer spreading NPK (nitrogen, phosphorus, pottasium) on his field. What about the average home owner putting fertilizer on his lawn. Most areas around the country still allow "P" in the fertilizer. Bans are now coming out against "P" in fertilizer along with laundry detergent. We do need to protect our water sources. Go after the major sources of pollutants, such as oil off of asphalt, concrete curing agents, used oil from cars, antifreeze from motor vehicles, etc. , etc. etc. These are far more harmful then some soap from car washing in my drive way. Remember the big oil spill in Alaska? Granted that is an extreme example. The next time you have your boat on the water look behind the engine--notice the nice colors forming on the water. Do we think that is less damaging then washing your car? Sure wouldn`t want to stop that pollutant. Water shed is important, and we do need to protect our waters. If you ban washing vehicles now what is next?

Yes to all the above `OI, but I have a problem bitc***g about `big bizness` while I merrily flush my wash water down the storm drain.

This is a good start (wash water disposal) and it sends the message that we are all serious about the problem and willing to do our share.

Personally, I haven`t found it to be very restrictive, and the water police have been more than helpful and supportive.

"Give a hoot - don`t pollute"

**JayJ** · 07-02-2004, 04:28 PM

Instead of everyone passing the buck and blaming big business...y not be responsible for your own actions and do YOUR part to protect YOUR environment.

People wonder why things never get better...everyone sits around waiting for the next guy to do something about the problem.

**OI812** · 07-02-2004, 11:01 PM

I do care about the environment. Have I been picking on big business--yes. We are ALL responsible for the enviroment. Thats the key to this whole post. "Feds to ban residential car washing", I think that was the title to the article. Was the article directed at the industry, didn`t look like it to me. Does the industry do a good job reclaiming MOST of the water--yes. Where I live, if you drive by the car wash there is still water and soap at the road going down the storm sewer. Maybe where you live it is dry all the time. I also find it rather ironic that everyone says to dump it down the sanitary sewer. Well guess what, out of sight and out of mind is not the right mentality either. The waste water treatment plants are not designed to be a chemical dump or chemical break down facility. They do a great job, but that is not there design purpose. Remember the final effluent ends up in a big lagoon where it is either evaporated or filter through the ground back into the water table. That would becomes the water we drink. I don`t want to drink phosphorus or even car soap. So lets all do our part. ALL means the industry also. I am sorry that it upsets me that the goverment seems to back up industry because some body is giving the kick backs. Maybe the article should have said "Feds demand better control of car wash run off" That way they were not point the finger at the small guy.

I AM SORRY IF I UPSET ANYONE. That was not my intention, we all need to care about the environment, and that does mean big business too.

**Anthony O.** · 07-03-2004, 01:10 AM

I`ll say it again......even IF ALL the mobile detailers and weekend driveway car washers either stopped washing cars or contained it and disposed of it properly, one 15 or 20 minute Texas style down pour will wash more gunk and grime down the storm drain than hundreds of detailers combined. THIS is where the problem lies!

I mean if they (the feds) would stop and actually think about the whole reasoning of this they would realize, I would hope, that putting band aids on an open bleeding wound does no good if you can`t stop the bleeding. What happens each and every time your cars wheels go thru a puddle of water? How many puddles of water does the average car drive thru on any given day? Think about all the mall parking lots that are filled with oil/gas leaking cars.

I do comply with the EPA crap but you think they would seek a solution to the water going into the storm drains.......unless of course the people pushing this law are the carwash owners themselves:wait Like others have said I believe this has a great deal to do with it.

Anthony

**dr_detail** · 07-03-2004, 08:40 AM

From what I understand on this issue, it is a federal act that has been passed down to the state, and in turn the city municipalities. Cities can be fined $50,000 a pop if they do not enforce it, and risk loosing federal funds. But who really is to enforce it -- the police, the fire department, code enforcement -- it`s all up to the city to decide. It is true that the association of carwash owners have lobbied for this. And having lived by the beach, this law does make sense (having seen what comes out of the storm drains, and not being able to surf without getting sick) however it also is ludicrous to think that they will start levying fines upon individuals. Think about it how many people like to wash their own car -- are they gonna start writing tickets to homeowners for $5000 each for washing their car?? I think not, so they go after professionals like us. But what exactly is the difference between me who can wash a car for a customer and that customer washing it themselves (just the wash guys) other than I am a professional who will use at the most 10 gallons to was a vehicle. I am ready to implement the necessary equipment, prior to my local government`s set the date for enforcement of this issue. Maybe we as professionals should combine our efforts and spend some time bombarding our local congressmen (or congresswoman) with letters asking for variance in the laws. For many of us, this is our livelihood.

I also ad that if they are gonna fine me -- you can bet your A$$ that I better see an equal enforcement of this ordinance. I will be calling whoever is deemed the enforcement in my area any and every time I see an individual doing the same -- I don`t care if it`s my #$%$^ neighbor! For this is America, and last time I checked, we are all supposed to be equal under the law -- it only seems to be some are more equal than others.

**freedre** · 07-03-2004, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by dr_detail
But who really is to enforce it -- the police, the fire department, code enforcement -- it`s all up to the city to decide. ... however it also is ludicrous to think that they will start levying fines upon individuals. ........ are they gonna start writing tickets to homeowners for $5000 each for washing their car??

I also ad that if they are gonna fine me -- you can bet your A$$ that I better see an equal enforcement of this ordinance. I will be calling whoever is deemed the enforcement in my area any and every time I see an individual doing the same -- I don`t care if it`s my #$%$^ neighbor! For this is America, and last time I checked, we are all supposed to be equal under the law -- it only seems to be some are more equal than others.

1. Who will enforce it? - Bylaw enforcement officers - they are often college students working part time or during the summer. They ride around on motor bikes and look for offenders. And you better believe it, there are lots of them and they can write you a ticket. They do other things as well, like look for broken sprinkler heads (wasting water), loose dogs, illegally parked RV`s - lots of stuff.

2. Are they going to start writing tickets to homeowners? Hell yes, they are allready doing it.

3. Equal enforcement? I`ll bet you have no idea how many water nazis there are in your own neighborhood. INCLUDING your own neighbors.

You can`t fight city hall.

**dr_detail** · 07-03-2004, 10:02 AM

freedre, how does this affect your business in Canada -- what acts has the Canadian Government placed into effect with regards to water run-off?

I don`t know how it is in Canada, but here you can fight city hall -- lol -- that`s exactly why this is America, the government serves the people, and if we, the people agree that something is outta whack, we have the right to change it -- it doesn`t happen overnight, and of course having a big wallet sure does help insuring liberty and justice for all, but for those who say you can`t fight it -- try detaining a few cars for those elected officials in City Hall

**OI812** · 07-03-2004, 11:04 AM

I know I am willing to fight against city hall. It would be an up hill battle, but I`m not willing to just take it. We don`t have people riding around on bikes patroling for violations. God good I can`t even get animal control to ticket my a$$ hole neighbor for letting her cat run the neighbor hood. In my book there is no difference to letting clean water from a gutter go to a storm sewer. Large commericail buildings have roof drains that go directly to the storm sewer. Whats the difference? The difference is that they have a bigger wallet then you or I. There is a saying in America--AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. ALL MEANS YOU, ME AND BIG BUSINESS.

**rabbi** · 07-03-2004, 07:07 PM

AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. ALL MEANS YOU, ME AND BIG BUSINESS. It does? When is this going to start? I haven`t read or heard anything pertaining to this. Rick Oh! Nevermind I`m staying out of it. Sorry

**shotime** · 07-04-2004, 12:14 PM

This could actually be a blessing in disguise. What if we could get all the mobile detailers in the country together and try to get an exception for professional car washing? It`s like having a water ban and being able to go to a coin op car wash to use the same amount of water to wash your car. My uncle`s sister is the personal secretary to the EPA administrator. (She`s also a family friend of W) I`ll see if I can pull some strings. I`d like to get a petition together and I`d be able to make sure it gets in the hands of the Admin. Next time I see him I`ll talk to him about it and get some contact info for her and give you guys and update. If any administration has been business friendly it`s this one.

**Gonzo0903** · 07-04-2004, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by Anthony Orosco
I`ll say it again......even IF ALL the mobile detailers and weekend driveway car washers either stopped washing cars or contained it and disposed of it properly, one 15 or 20 minute Texas style down pour will wash more gunk and grime down the storm drain than hundreds of detailers combined. THIS is where the problem lies!

I mean if they (the feds) would stop and actually think about the whole reasoning of this they would realize, I would hope, that putting band aids on an open bleeding wound does no good if you can`t stop the bleeding. What happens each and every time your cars wheels go thru a puddle of water? How many puddles of water does the average car drive thru on any given day? Think about all the mall parking lots that are filled with oil/gas leaking cars.

I do comply with the EPA crap but you think they would seek a solution to the water going into the storm drains.......unless of course the people pushing this law are the carwash owners themselves:wait Like others have said I believe this has a great deal to do with it.

Anthony

Bingo!

**ohsoclean** · 07-11-2004, 09:47 PM

at my shop the town inspector gave me ```` for everything from the signs bieng to big and ditracting to my 10x20 canopy bieng to close to the building .... he then tried to hassle me about actually running a detail buisness out of the location i was in .... i peeled of the label to every car wash i had and circled the "non-toxic" bio-degradeable " parts of the labels ... he was pretty pissed i told him the ```` is harmless.. hell i told him he could mix some up in a glass and drink it and be fine . i think he likes me.:doubleduc :moon: