Oddity while claying

**Tassadar** · 06-17-2004, 08:11 PM

Well I was out cleaning up my Mustang today (it had been probably 4 months since I had time to wash it) and decided to go through my full regiment.

Well after using tar remover on the entire car and then washing it, I started claying. However, while I was claying, I started to find sections that would constantly pull and never seemed to remove whatever the imbedded contaminent was. Well after a few pases I looked at the clay...and it had a white substance on it (the car is white). So I washed the panel real quick, and then clayed it again, same result; a cloudy white water would come off the paint.

The paint is not dead, heck the paint look outstanding before I hit it with SSR1. However, the paint is old (about 15 years old) and certain areas are starting to peel away from old rock impacts. However, the roof (which was one of the problem areas mentioned in the claying) was free of any debris damage and it still had this problem.

Now, given the length of time since this car was last truly cared for, I highly doubt any residue was left over from previous work; and furthermore, I am usually not so sloppy as to leave residue behind.

Any ideas?

**Poorboy** · 06-17-2004, 08:21 PM

no ...never heard of anything like that:dunno

**Tassadar** · 06-17-2004, 08:39 PM

I just remembered, my entire street was redone about 3-4 weeks ago. They tore it down to do the dirt, relayed concrete (very very dusty mixture) and then layed asphalt. Is it possible that this cloudy substance coming out of the paint could be the product of the road construction? If so, I am highly surprised because the car went through a good tar remover and a very concentrated wash before I clayed.

Note, even after claying once, washing, and then claying again and washing yet again; I was still getting this cloudy substance out of the paint. I finally gave up on ever removing whatever it was. I just hit the paint with SSR1 and EX then called it a day (2 claying sessions wore me out).

**SpoiledMan** · 06-17-2004, 08:55 PM

While I don`t think your paint is "dead," it does sound like you have oxidation coming off of it. It` old and white so it`s more than likely single stage and just doing a little healthy shedding.

**Tassadar** · 06-17-2004, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by SpoiledMan
While I don`t think your paint is "dead," it does sound like you have oxidation coming off of it. It` old and white so it`s more than likely single stage and just doing a little healthy shedding.

Nope, not that either. The car is clearcoated. And that car would have very very little oxidation. While it has been awhile since it received my normal regiment of cleaning, it has always been treated extremely well. Getting polished and 1-3 coats of EX on it a month was not unheard of for this car.

**Tassadar** · 06-18-2004, 01:06 AM

Really and truly, anyone have any ideas?

**EBPcivicsi** · 06-18-2004, 08:04 AM

Any chance that you could have been near a large building or house while a company was painting it? Doesn`t sound like overspray since by the sound of it the "gunk" was causing a constant pull on the clay, Usually overspray will feel "gritty" between the clay.

What wash were you using?

Were you using a QD or soap for lube?

What clay? Clay magic?

FWIW, I have never heard nor come across anything like this, I am just puling straws here.

**norahcrv** · 06-18-2004, 08:53 AM

Is it possible that the "Tar Remover" was too strong for the paint and has effected some change?

**dr_detail** · 06-18-2004, 09:00 AM

lemme guess...

This is a 86-89 mustang...?

Which would correlate to the timeframe Ford (and others) switched to "environmentally friendly" painting methods. Ford had problems with their paint jobs around that time -- mainly with the clear adhesion. With time, as it oxidized, the clear coat would turn white and hazy. It would then become brittle and chip/peel/rub off. This happened mostly on the top surfaces. Could this be what`s going on with yours -- just that it`s taken longer to happen due to you keeping up your vehicle, or that it`s not as noticeable on white?

**EBPcivicsi** · 06-18-2004, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by dr_detail
lemme guess...

This is a 86-89 mustang...?

Which would correlate to the timeframe Ford (and others) switched to "environmentally friendly" painting methods. Ford had problems with their paint jobs around that time -- mainly with the clear adhesion. With time, as it oxidized, the clear coat would turn white and hazy. It would then become brittle and chip/peel/rub off. This happened mostly on the top surfaces. Could this be what`s going on with yours -- just that it`s taken longer to happen due to you keeping up your vehicle, or that it`s not as noticeable on white?

Forgot about that, chrysler had the same problem right?

Didn`t they leave out a process in the painting that caused the paint to not adhere properly? Something like the "electron attraction" step. I remember when dateline did a piece on this.

**Tassadar** · 06-18-2004, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by EBPcivicsi
Any chance that you could have been near a large building or house while a company was painting it? Doesn`t sound like overspray since by the sound of it the "gunk" was causing a constant pull on the clay, Usually overspray will feel "gritty" between the clay.

What wash were you using?

Were you using a QD or soap for lube?

What clay? Clay magic?

1. No, the car has not been near any painting, just a lot of road construction.

2. Used Eagle One`s Wet Car Wash

3. Used Eagle One`s Wipe & Shine (the car was still moderately wet from the wash)

4. Poorboy`s Clay

Originally posted by norahcrv
Is it possible that the "Tar Remover" was too strong for the paint and has effected some change?

I highly doubt this, I had a box of Turtle Wax bug & tar remover wipes that I used (given as a gift, getting rid of them only on personal cars) . The chances of that formula being too strong are slim.

Originally posted by dr_detail
lemme guess...

This is a 86-89 mustang...?

Which would correlate to the timeframe Ford (and others) switched to "environmentally friendly" painting methods. Ford had problems with their paint jobs around that time -- mainly with the clear adhesion. With time, as it oxidized, the clear coat would turn white and hazy. It would then become brittle and chip/peel/rub off. This happened mostly on the top surfaces. Could this be what`s going on with yours -- just that it`s taken longer to happen due to you keeping up your vehicle, or that it`s not as noticeable on white?

Well its a 1990, so that doesn`t fall in your timeframe. As for the upkeep of the vehicle, I am the fourth owner, and I know for certain that the previous owners (26 year old, 65+ couple, dealership loaner) did not take exemplary care of the car. Also, this white cloudy liquid has never come up in the past, even on my first details. To further compound that, some of the panels are repainted, and those panels had the same white cloudy liquid coming off them.

I truly am at a loss.

**EBPcivicsi** · 06-18-2004, 01:28 PM

I give up! Let`s just say that it is some type of "foreign matter." :-p

**Scooter** · 06-18-2004, 01:46 PM

It could very well be the concrete. Concrete has a habit of adhering to everything, and since the car was white, it could very well be hiding in the paint. If you want to test to see what it is, you could always apply some vinegar to it. Concrete is a strong base, and vinegar will react when it touches the concrete powder.
cement companies actually use acid ont heir trucks to remove the concrete, and a lot of times you cannot even tell it is there. It is part of the reason that they all use white drums on the cement trucks. So anyway Tassadar, you probably hit it on the head of why it is turning white. It did probably pick up the concrete from the construction. The only thign that would lead me away from that is that it was a well cared for car and wax is usually too hard for the concrete to imbed itself into the wax coated paint.

Scooter

**Tassadar** · 06-19-2004, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by Scooter
It could very well be the concrete. Concrete has a habit of adhering to everything, and since the car was white, it could very well be hiding in the paint. If you want to test to see what it is, you could always apply some vinegar to it. Concrete is a strong base, and vinegar will react when it touches the concrete powder.
cement companies actually use acid ont heir trucks to remove the concrete, and a lot of times you cannot even tell it is there. It is part of the reason that they all use white drums on the cement trucks. So anyway Tassadar, you probably hit it on the head of why it is turning white. It did probably pick up the concrete from the construction. The only thign that would lead me away from that is that it was a well cared for car and wax is usually too hard for the concrete to imbed itself into the wax coated paint.

Scooter

I just wonder why the stuff kept coming up. It was not a constant layer over the entire car, and the paint certainly did not look hazy as one would expect with such a opague material as concrete. What worries me is that after 2 claying sessions the stuff was still coming up. I was not getting anything to come up with SSR1, either. It just kind of disturbs me to get this material out of the paint and have no clue what it is.

**EZ Boy** · 06-20-2004, 10:03 AM

The process for laying asphalt is to prelay a coating of burnt lime (Calcium Oxide) and this is VERY ALKALINE!! Great for burning paint, clearcoat, waxes and polymers. No s**t ladies and gentlemen, this stuff is NASTY! I got in a big blue with contractors that layered this crap all over my Mrs. car while we were out. They told me it was no big deal and that is was "harmless", until I grabbed a spade full and threw it over the foreman`s Landcruiser - for a "harmless" substance they sure sprung to life to wash it off

. Interesting to note they all wore respirators, overalls and rubber gloves when handling it.

I hope this crap isn`t on your ride. If you`ve got a pool testkit you might be able to check the alkalinity of a sample to rule this out.