What in the world happened to my backing plate?

**clean4u** · 06-19-2004, 06:29 PM

hmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!! This sounds interesting

**rhillstr** · 06-19-2004, 06:33 PM

Oh I almost forgot, there is a hook and loop backing plate with holes as Steve mentioned. You use it in conjunction with the rubber sealed dust collector attachment for sanding wood (there are 6" velcro backed sandpaper sheets you can buy with holes cut in them to match).

**Nickc0844** · 06-19-2004, 06:44 PM

Personally, I am a bit down at the durability of my PC......I`d be saying this too even if they were a sponsor of DC. I am on my 3rd one in 2 years. The first two had the same problem, they were not getting a good connection after some time. At this point, I`d be more than willing to pay Lowes a $50 insurance policy just so that I could go to the store if it breaks and get a new one right then and there, just like Harbor Freight Tools.

I wanted to buy a similar machine by a different brand, but frankly, there isn`t one that really exists. D-Walt has a similar one, but the connections are all messed up, and none will take Edge`s pads.

Do the people at Porter Cable not realize that this is a niche market they fell upon? I mean, they make a Meg`s PC now, so they have to know that we are using it for more than applying wax.

Sincerely,
Angry Customer :angry

**rhillstr** · 06-19-2004, 07:36 PM

Angry Customer-
Ever try this one?
http://www.cyclotoolmakers.com/products.html

**keeotee** · 06-19-2004, 09:36 PM

Well, hang on a minute folks... this just in from the "TripWire Services"...

Porter Cable manual, and I quote the front cover: "

Double Insulated Random Orbit 5" Sander/6" Polisher"

On page 8, the heading of "Using the Polisher", item number 7, and I quote"

Do not mix products (wax, polish, cleaner, etc.) on the same pad. Label each pad to prevent future confusion.

Item number 8, and again I quote:

The polishing pad is designed for product application only. Remove product residue with a soft cotton towel.

Maybe I`m missing something here, but it sure sounds to me like they are talking the same talk we are, unless of course they are referring to working with wax, polish, cleaner, etc. in reference to wood and not paint. One would think they might point that out if such were the case though.

Nevertheless, I`ve bought another as I just don`t want to be without one. I`m just hoping the next one lasts much longer than this.

Say, I`ll bet we could get plenty of folks to post in this thread telling of how long they`ve had their pc for and how often they`ve used it with no problems.

I`m just not ready though to say porter cable isn`t good since I believe, as I mentioned that sometimes a bad one just slips by. I don`t think proter cable intends for a bad product to be made and sold. Not many companies do intend such things.

**rhillstr** · 06-19-2004, 10:36 PM

Okay so per Porter-Cable via Aaron (The Edge) you are not to Buff/Compound but you can (per instruction manual via Kee) clean, polish, and wax. Great...

**OI812** · 06-19-2004, 10:45 PM

freedre,
I was not insulted! I also didn`t mean to offend you! That was not my intention, but when I read your reply it sounded like you had a maintance tip-- I was looking for that. Possible opening the case and adding oil to the bearing? Any way I hope my PC burns up in two weeks so I can get it replaced for free since it is under warranty. If they don`t intend it to be a detailing machine then don`t put "sander/polisher" on the label. End of story. If porter cable is trying to tell me that putting a 80 grit sand paper on it and sanding oak or even pine is easier on it then say appling DACP and rubbing it out, I say B.S. Do you all suppose that if this was a wood working forum that PC would be telling us that the 7424 was built for polishing vehicles not wood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**edschwab1** · 06-19-2004, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by rhillstr
Okay so per Porter-Cable via Aaron (The Edge) you are not to Buff/Compound but you can (per instruction manual via Kee) clean, polish, and wax. Great...

What is the difference between cleaning and buffing/compunding? As meguiars and other companies call their compounds cleaners.

I a few backing plates which look like Keeotee`s. My backing plates ended up like this from hours and hours (6-8hrs) of heavy use (lots of pressure) at speed 6. I now have the PC 6" 6-hole backing plate, hopefully this works. Cause, heat from machine (IMO, heat is a normal by product of metal parts rubbing together), high ambient temp, one time using large foam pads and the motion of the PC. IMO,once the PC and foam pad warm up, compounds and polish break down quicker.

Are rotary hook and loop backing plates made differently than the backing plates made for DA type machines?

As to other PC like machines, check out the makita, Dewalt or Bosch make a similar product.
Eric

**Aaron@IAP** · 06-20-2004, 08:44 AM

rhillstr, please read my post again. I only said the PC was not designed to buff in COMPOUND. What that means is that the machine comes with a polishing foam pad for applying wax or polish to create a shine, not to do corrective paint repairs. You do not need speeds of 5-6 to apply wax or polish or glaze. The question of larger pads is answered right on your counter weight where it clearly states "Use only with 6`` pad" . You state the PC is called a poisher and that is exactly what it is, not a BUFFER. If you want to do paint restoration I stongly suggest learning the rotary.

**keeotee** · 06-20-2004, 10:41 AM

I think you`ve made a good point - polisher and not a buffer. So I was missing something there afterall.

But since you sell the Edge DA pads, which go from heavy cut to ultrafine, what machine should we be usiing then. Your website states that these pads are not intended for use with high-speed buffers use only. And heavy cutting pads would be for corrective use. So I`m just wondering what machine we should use then if not the porter cable? Are other brands made for use with paint and the porter cable just somehow became the more popular one that people have come to use?

I know I`m going to stay away from the setting of 6 regardless from now on.

And I`m no expert by a long shot, so if I screwed up using it incorrectly, then that is my fault and certainly not Porter Cable`s or anyone else`s for that matter.

But I sure do want to know and understand better how to make the next one last a whole lot longer.

I sure didn`t mean to start any kind of bashing porter cable thread. I was simply at a loss as to what happened. I suspected my buffer went bad on me - I couldn`t think of anyway the backing plate went bad, so I just wanted to know.

**rhillstr** · 06-20-2004, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by The Edge
rhillstr, please read my post again. I only said the PC was not designed to buff in COMPOUND. What that means is that the machine comes with a polishing foam pad for applying wax or polish to create a shine, not to do corrective paint repairs. You do not need speeds of 5-6 to apply wax or polish or glaze. The question of larger pads is answered right on your counter weight where it clearly states "Use only with 6`` pad" . You state the PC is called a poisher and that is exactly what it is, not a BUFFER. If you want to do paint restoration I stongly suggest learning the rotary.

You seem a little on edge in your reply. I have not accused you of anything nor implied you are inaccurate in your info. I merely pointed out that having talked with the PC engineers you may have more insight into the PC issue. I come in peace...

What I meant to bring to light is the old terminology issue. What exactly is the definition of polish. Sure somebody will go get webster`s and post the definition but it will not answer the question. Ask many people and you will get many answers. Same goes for buffing and cleaning. For that matter when is a polisher a polisher, and not a buffer? Compounding and paint correction have hard fast definitions and I don`t think anybody is attempting removal of deep scratches, marring, or orange peel with a PC. Where does swirl removal fit in, a popular use for the PC? Nobody will debate wax and sealant application are okay for the PC, but most folks do not buy a PC strictly for that application- they use it for slight blemish removal (polishing?).

I agree with the pad issue. The counterweight, however is not designed for pad size, it is designed for pad weight. They supply the 7424 with the 5" counterweight and a 6" pad... hmmm. The hook and loop backing plate kit comes with the 6" counterweight, but for what size pad? Now a 8" rotary pad on a PC is clear cut overkill. But what about 7"? This clearly depends on the amount of friction between the pad and paint because that is the load on the motor. There are too many unanswered questions here and we need more info. As a pad maker, I was simply hoping you would kindly shed some light. Thanks in advance.

Oh and just for reference- I love Porter-Cable tools!!
-Rob

**rhillstr** · 06-20-2004, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by edschwab1
What is the difference between cleaning and buffing/compunding? As meguiars and other companies call their compounds cleaners.

I a few backing plates which look like Keeotee`s. My backing plates ended up like this from hours and hours (6-8hrs) of heavy use (lots of pressure) at speed 6. I now have the PC 6" 6-hole backing plate, hopefully this works. Cause, heat from machine (IMO, heat is a normal by product of metal parts rubbing together), high ambient temp, one time using large foam pads and the motion of the PC. IMO,once the PC and foam pad warm up, compounds and polish break down quicker.

Are rotary hook and loop backing plates made differently than the backing plates made for DA type machines?

As to other PC like machines, check out the makita, Dewalt or Bosch make a similar product.
Eric

Again the holes are for sawdust collection not heat dispersement. By having less backing plate material you force the remaing material to pick up the load and I would predict quicker pad failure. I think that while heat may accelerate the break down, shear forces as a result from to big of a load my by at work here as well.