Hydrophobic or Superhydrophobic?

**Glass Man** · 12-27-2012, 11:37 AM

There is a difference between hydrophobic and superhydrophobic. A world of difference! Simply put they are both cats. However one comes from the alley. And the other costs five thousand bux. A microfiber cloth can wipe dry a hydrophobic surface very quick with just pure water. No soap/no streaks. Hydrophobics eliminate window cleaner in a can. PVA microfiber sponge cloths work well inside the car. Superhydrophobics will accomplish so much more. Most especially for the driver. Go to the youtube and watch some of the videos showing what a superhydrophobic surface will do. This technology is just on the horizon. Go to the Wikipedia and read about superhydrophobics. Also check out this article http://www.ornl.gov/adm/partnerships...aper_post1.pdf Take the time to slowly read through it. I am going to use it to do further research. However it seems we can inch a little closer to superhydrophobicity with the hydrophobic products out there right now if we pay more attention to creating a better nano/microstructure from the surface we are working on. It also tells me that my greater success with certain products is due more to microstructuring with specific abrasives rather than the elimination of microscopic contaminants and opening up new oxygen atoms to react with. If you check out the featured pic in the article I referenced here you will see that the nanostructure is in fact quite layered. It is "deep". I also noticed that even though it is quite amorphous it is still very uniform. This is the first structure of the two level coating. Which the Wik shows very well in an illustration. Also check out this link SUPERHYDROPHOBIC COATING - Knowledge on Super HydroPhobic Coating It has some fascinating information.

I want to help the Auto Detailing Industry to understand how to correctly apply hydrophobic coatings. Also to some day soon be able to offer longlasting superhydrophobic coatings.

Henry Grover Jr.

**Reflectiveauto** · 12-31-2012, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Glass Man

There is a difference between hydrophobic and superhydrophobic. A world of difference! Simply put they are both cats. However one comes from the alley. And the other costs five thousand bux. A microfiber cloth can wipe dry a hydrophobic surface very quick with just pure water. No soap/no streaks. Hydrophobics eliminate window cleaner in a can. PVA microfiber sponge cloths work well inside the car. Superhydrophobics will accomplish so much more. Most especially for the driver. Go to the youtube and watch some of the videos showing what a superhydrophobic surface will do. This technology is just on the horizon. Go to the Wikipedia and read about superhydrophobics. Also check out this article http://www.ornl.gov/adm/partnerships...aper_post1.pdf Take the time to slowly read through it. I am going to use it to do further research. However it seems we can inch a little closer to superhydrophobicity with the hydrophobic products out there right now if we pay more attention to creating a better nano/microstructure from the surface we are working on. It also tells me that my greater success with certain products is due more to microstructuring with specific abrasives rather than the elimination of microscopic contaminants and opening up new oxygen atoms to react with. If you check out the featured pic in the article I referenced here you will see that the nanostructure is in fact quite layered. It is "deep". I also noticed that even though it is quite amorphous it is still very uniform. This is the first structure of the two level coating. Which the Wik shows very well in an illustration. Also check out this link SUPERHYDROPHOBIC COATING - Knowledge on Super HydroPhobic Coating It has some fascinating information.

I want to help the Auto Detailing Industry to understand how to correctly apply hydrophobic coatings. Also to some day soon be able to offer longlasting superhydrophobic coatings.

Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com
www.glass-smart.blogspot.com

Well Im testing alot of products from the UK and they will be sending me some Super Hydrophobic Sealants for testing after the new year.

**Glass Man** · 01-01-2013, 08:12 AM

I am looking forward to your input! There is so much happening right now with products like Never Wet and more. The reality will always be in the testing. I have learned over the years never to put my trust in technical hype.

**TroyScherer** · 01-01-2013, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Glass Man

I am looking forward to your input! There is so much happening right now with products like Never Wet and more. The reality will always be in the testing. I have learned over the years never to put my trust in technical hype.

I heard of "never wet" last year and watched a video or two on it. I was excited but was worried about abrasion resistance as that is usually the downfall of most of these coatings.

With the way tech is going I think it is only a matter of time before they come out with a legitimate Ultra Superhydrophobic coating that will literally ahead water while a vehicle is sitting still and will eliminate the need for many of our cleaning routines.

**Todd@RUPES** · 01-02-2013, 11:38 AM

[quote=Glass Man;457724]There is a difference between hydrophobic and superhydrophobic. A world of difference! Simply put they are both cats. However one comes from the alley. And the other costs five thousand bux. A microfiber cloth can wipe dry a hydrophobic surface very quick with just pure water. No soap/no streaks. Hydrophobics eliminate window cleaner in a can. PVA microfiber sponge cloths work well inside the car. Superhydrophobics will accomplish so much more. Most especially for the driver. Go to the youtube and watch some of the videos showing what a superhydrophobic surface will do. This technology is just on the horizon. Go to the Wikipedia and read about superhydrophobics. Also check out this article http://www.ornl.gov/adm/partnerships...aper_post1.pdf Take the time to slowly read through it. I am going to use it to do further research. However it seems we can inch a little closer to superhydrophobicity with the hydrophobic products out there right now if we pay more attention to creating a better nano/microstructure from the surface we are working on. It also tells me that my greater success with certain products is due more to microstructuring with specific abrasives rather than the elimination of microscopic contaminants and opening up new oxygen atoms to react with. If you check out the featured pic in the article I referenced here you will see that the nanostructure is in fact quite layered. It is "deep". I also noticed that even though it is quite amorphous it is still very uniform. This is the first structure of the two level coating. Which the Wik shows very well in an illustration. Also check out this link SUPERHYDROPHOBIC COATING - Knowledge on Super HydroPhobic Coating It has some fascinating information.

I want to help the Auto Detailing Industry to understand how to correctly apply hydrophobic coatings. Also to some day soon be able to offer longlasting superhydrophobic coatings.

Henry Grover Jr.

Great article Henry, thanks for sharing. I highlighted, in red, your link. Very nice reading!

**Todd@RUPES** · 01-02-2013, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Reflectiveauto

Well Im testing alot of products from the UK and they will be sending me some Super Hydrophobic Sealants for testing after the new year.

Should be interesting to see the results. My understanding, which is reaffirmed in the article linked by Henry, is that to achieve "Super Hydrophobic" qualities the topography of the surface has to have millions of microscopic bumps (similar to how a lotus leaf or shark skin works). The problem, again noted in the linked article, is that abrasion or wear will quickly level these bumps ruining the Super Hydrophobic effect.

**Glass Man** · 01-04-2013, 08:07 PM

Hi Todd,

Right on target! This is the point. Although knowing this I am guessing that it might be interesting to experiment with different glass surfaces. In other words using the same hydrophobe/product on a ten micron polished surface as opposed to a five, one, and nanoscaled surface. Will the hydrophobic coating create a greater contact angle on just the right surface? Because this type of surface would not "wear off".

Also I was curious to know if you might be interested in having another subforum called Vision Glass Detailing? I know there are many guys here that would contribute. And I think this field is beginning to really take off.