Need DA Polisher Advice

[01svtL]

I had the original GG DA for 12 years; It finally fell apart on me in the middle of polishing my new ride - luckily pulled away just before it hit the paint. Anyway, I bought the Chemical Guys TorqX after VERY short research figuring it had to be better than what I bought 12 years ago if nothing else. Well, it isn`t. It gets so hot, so fast, that it`s almost impossible to hold on to the damn thing. Not only that, but just the smallest of curves in body panels and it appears to bind up. At first I thought maybe my eyes just couldn`t see it spinning, but after reading on here, I see it is called "stalling out. So, maybe perception is reality in that regard. If that`s the case, this thing is only good for perfectly flat panels and nothing else.

I have a 2018 Ford Explorer Sport in black. So, it has a lot of large "flat" panels, but it also has a lot of small curved edges at windows and on the panels towards the back end, not to mention the entire tailgate area. With my GG, I could have just turned it up on end or angle and kept right on going - nothing made it bind up or "stall out" as it`s apparently called.

That said, I used to detail cars for friends and local car club members for a little extra cash on the side. These days, it`ll just be maintaining this black Explorer (which I said I`d never have another black car after my last one 18 years ago) and my wife`s Edge, or whatever she ends up with next. So, I don`t mind spending a little extra time on the polishing as long as I`m not constantly dealing with stalling or power issues. I won`t have to deal with paint that is so messed up that I`ll need a whole day of just polishing and 5 different polishes to fix. So should I just get something with a 3" backplate and spend the extra time, or is there something in the 5" range that won`t bind/stall out on the smallest of panel curves that doesn`t cost $400? Really, $300 is about my max, seeing as I`ll likely only use it once/year on each car, as I`ll be topping with a ceramic coating myself. Thoughts and suggestions?

[dgage]

The Griot’s GG9 is a well-regarded polisher, especially for the price and warranty. It has much more power than your old polisher.

[Coatings=crack]

For that SUV I’d go 15mm. Griots G15 or Rupes


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[dgage]

I was suggesting the GG9 over the G15 due to his wanting to use 3” as well. G15 would make quicker work of your Explorer but you’d probably then need to buy the smaller GG8 for 3” pads. A little more money but less time. Not sure time is a consideration if you’re only using these once a year.

[Setec Astronomy]

I was suggesting the GG9 over the G15 due to his wanting to use 3” as well. G15 would make quicker work of your Explorer but you’d probably then need to buy the smaller GG8 for 3” pads. A little more money but less time. Not sure time is a consideration if you’re only using these once a year.

I interpreted the OP`s comment about the 3" backing plate as a solution to stalling, not that he needed a smaller pad for clearance issues.

So should I just get something with a 3" backplate and spend the extra time, or is there something in the 5" range that won`t bind/stall out on the smallest of panel curves that doesn`t cost $400?

[01svtL]

I interpreted the OP`s comment about the 3" backing plate as a solution to stalling, not that he needed a smaller pad for clearance issues.

Yep, just don`t want to stall. My original GG 6" wouldn`t stall on panels like this. The Chemical Guys TorqX I just tried stalls waaaay too easily though. That on top of the extreme heat makes it basically unusable. Supposedly it has 700 watts...

[Stokdgs]

01svtL ---

I believe that the Griots Garage G9 would be the best all-around machine for anyone wanting a great, reliable machine...

Would pair it with a 5", ventilated backing plate, and appropriate size foam pads, and just go do the work...
Yes, you can also get a 3" backing plate and smaller pads for it also, if you think you need this...

Yes, you will always need - Pad Rotation - for the best correction..

Perhaps now, someone makes a small extension for Random Orbitals, like they do for Rotary machines, and if so, that always helps you get the pad into smaller places too..

Yes, you can just use a 3" pad/backing plate, but wow, it is going to take a Long Time, to do any vehicle, especially the bigger ones...

I have never been a fan of much that C/Guys sells, and they absolutely sell a Zillion versions of everything...That is their business plan... Sell Everything...

The old Standard, where random orbital paint correction started, is still the Porter Cable 7424 wood finishing tool, from years ago... Compact and easy to use too...But still a Random Orbital like all the rest.... Key word - Random -....

Take a Black Sharpie and put a vertical line on the back of your backing plate/s, start from the edge and go down, and this will help get a visual of how much pad rotation and how fast you are getting it....

Good luck with your research !
Dan F

[01svtL]

01svtL ---

I believe that the Griots Garage G9 would be the best all-around machine for anyone wanting a great, reliable machine...

Would pair it with a 5", ventilated backing plate, and appropriate size foam pads, and just go do the work...
Yes, you can also get a 3" backing plate and smaller pads for it also, if you think you need this...

Yes, you will always need - Pad Rotation - for the best correction..

Perhaps now, someone makes a small extension for Random Orbitals, like they do for Rotary machines, and if so, that always helps you get the pad into smaller places too..

Yes, you can just use a 3" pad/backing plate, but wow, it is going to take a Long Time, to do any vehicle, especially the bigger ones...

I have never been a fan of much that C/Guys sells, and they absolutely sell a Zillion versions of everything...That is their business plan... Sell Everything...

The old Standard, where random orbital paint correction started, is still the Porter Cable 7424 wood finishing tool, from years ago... Compact and easy to use too...But still a Random Orbital like all the rest.... Key word - Random -....

Take a Black Sharpie and put a vertical line on the back of your backing plate/s, start from the edge and go down, and this will help get a visual of how much pad rotation and how fast you are getting it....

Good luck with your research !
Dan F

Thanks for the feedback! Yea I had a 7424 briefly before the GG - felt like it stalled too easily too. I should have done more research before pulling the trigger on the CG unit. In the short research I`ve done since, it looks like it`s just a rebranded version of the same polisher than several other companies sell at considerably cheaper prices. It does sound like the G9 is what I need.

[Oneheadlite]

First off, hopefully you haven`t pitched the old GG6 in the bin - have you tried contacting them? My first gen GG6 was spitting grease out of the vent, I contacted them (call customer service during the day) and they had me send it in. They sent me a current (3rd gen at the time) GG6 as a replacement, no $$ required. I believe in recent years they ask for the price difference between the original and the MSRP of the G9, which I don`t think is unreasonable.

Second - The G9 I think is a great all around machine. Plenty of power to get the job done, very comfortable, and tends to be quieter since you don`t have to run it on as high of a speed setting. I`ve found while the general consensus for so long was short throw machines had to be switched to 5" thin pads to be able to work well, I actually found the G9 has enough power (and with it`s digital speed control) that for tighter spaces and heavily contoured areas the thick 6.5" pads actually work really well to keep rotation up. That being said I do bounce around between the 5" backing plate and 5.5" pads and the 6"/6.5" setup, using both thick and thin pads for each.

Third - I wouldn`t recommend the 3" backing plate on the G9. While *technically* you can thread one on, the way the shroud/hand grip area is designed you really don`t get a good view of your working area. The machine just wasn`t made with that use in mind. Here`s a post I did on the sister site to help people visualize why it`s not a great idea: Backing Plate Swap - 5 inch backing plate for the Griot`s Garage G9 - Page 3

Also, if you do get a 5" backing plate, make sure to get the Griot`s vented one as it`s designed to work with the cooling design of the machine.

[Stokdgs]

01svtL ---

Yes, a lot of people sell rebranded machinery from China, and that is how it has been for quite awhile...

At least with Griot`s who is based out of Washington State, you have better service I believe, and the best warranty..

Perhaps you can see if you can sell your C/G unit on Ebay or more local websites, or just keep it for back up or if you have someone who wants to help you...

Call the Griot`s people and talk with them... The man who started this, Richard Griot lives in WA., and started his line I believe around 30 years ago...

Many people on this forum have Griot`s or Rupes machines and have great feedback from their experiences...

When Rupes first came out, there were to me, an alarming amount of machine failures, etc., but perhaps they have ironed all of those things out.. They will be at the top of the price point...

I hardly ever hear or heard much about Griot`s machines breaking over almost 2 decades...

And yes, all the best correction always comes from Pad Rotation, and these machines seem to have the most when turned up to speed 6, etc... Of course, in some places,, the delicate ones, etc., as you know, you turn it down, to be more careful, etc...

Good luck with your research !
Dan F

[Lonnie]

I find that this particular question about which dual-action random-orbital (DA-RO) polisher/machine to buy is a never-ending thread topic.
SO, here`s some of the questions/concerns you need to answer for yourself:
1) How often are you going to use this machine AND/OR are you going to be using this for extended periods of time when you do correction and polishing? You may need to consider a "professional" polishing machine rather than something a little more "pedestrian" (AKA, less expensive or CHEAP)
2) How much money do you want to spend? Everyone has a "limited" detailing tool budget and yes, you do get what you pay for.
3) What "other" exterior surfaces may you use this polisher on? If it is fiberglass boats or motor homes, then a DA-RO is NOT the answer to your choice, but a true rotary polisher may be better suited for "other" types of vehicle surfaces. Yes, it is harder to learn and master its usage, BUT it does have its advantages over DA-RO, the biggest being the time needed to correct. MOST vehicle dealerships and body shops use rotaries because, time IS money.
And yes, MANY professional detailers prefer and will ONLY use DA-RO`s because there is less change of rotary swirls and paint burn-throughs.
4) What is the warranty and customer service of the polisher manufacturer are you buying like? Don`t laugh- service-after-the sale is paramount, including parts availability and if they stand behind the machine they make and sell.
5a) What pad size(s) are you planning on using OR do you have a current pad inventory of a certain size and types that you already own?
5b) Can the polishing machine use more than one pad backing plate size? IF you NEED (or have) small pad sizes (2" or 1") a DA-RO may accept those size backing plates and hence pads and you may need to consider a separate small-sized/compact DA-RO or rotary. (Hazed headlight repair-refurbishing is a good example).
6) How physically fit are you OR do you have hand or arm heath-issues, like arthritis? Laugh as you may at that, buying a polishing machine that is too heavy or one that vibrates excessively can make correcting and polishing physically challenging and painful, to say the least.

You know what your answers are to the above questions and what factors are most important to you personally.
Keep us informed what you choose and why.

Like I said at the beginning, it is a common thread topic and we can all learn from it.

[01svtL]

I ended up ordering the G9 kit that comes with the 5" backing plate with a few pads to get started. The kit is on sale for $219.99 on AG.

I`m a dumbass and threw my old GG away. I was not aware of the warranty. Live and learn I guess. I should never have to throw this one away at least. I`m looking forward to seeing how deep I can get the paint on this black Explorer. I know it`s another topic all together, but are ceramic coatings still the "next best thing?"

[Lonnie]

On thing you will "like" about the G9 is its 9mm throw allows you to apply sealants and liquid waxes rather than doing this by hand, if that is your "thing` in past-step products (LSPs). That is not a good idea with long-throw (15mm or 21mm) DA-ROs, as the heat they generate from such long throws is detrimental to the applications said LPS, even at slower oscillation speeds. The other factor of the 9mm throw of your G9 is it is much "easier" on today`s very-thin product vehicle paint thickness (3.5 mil or less). The smaller throw does not abrade off the thin clear coat during the correction and polishing step as quickly as a 15mm or a 21mm, especially if this is done a yearly basis to your vehicle with such a thin paint. The downside is obvious: it will take longer to correct IF you have deeper scratches. That said, the plus side is that there is less chance of burn-through this thin paint at some inopportune area on production vehicles, like creases or ridges styling forms in sheet metal panels. Don`t laugh, it happens to the best of detailers; which is WHY many good and knowledgeable detailers will use very thin painter`s tape on those creases or ridges to prevent `accidental" burn-through.

Some professions with paint thickness gauges (PTGs) who measure paint thickness on older vehicles that have undergone previous corrections and polishing processes can identify and quantify thinned paint areas IE, they know HOW thin and WHERE it occurs. By using a DA-RO with a short throw like the 9mm G9, they still polish the area with a little "judicious" use of a fine-abrasive polish and softer pad to avoid burn-through in these areas.

One hint I will give about using ANY DA-RO, regardless of its throw length/stroke is watch how much pressure you apply to painted plastic area , like front and rear bumpers and painted or plasticized B-and/or-C pillar (side doors) panels. It is SO easy to "accidentally" burn through the clear-coat/paint on these surfaces because the heat generated from the abrasives and pads does NOT dissipate like it does on sheet metal. This is especially true of compounds and harder/denser correcting-specific foam pads or microfiber correcting pads. It may be best to use softer polishing type pads with a compound on such plastic surfaces or just use a medium-abrasive polish and softer polishing-specific pad on those plastic surfaces and forgo the higher oscillation speeds. Your continued experience with your G9 will tell you what polish, pad, and how long and fast to move them over the plastic surfaces will achieve the final results on such surfaces.

The use of a 5" pad diameter has been the subject of much debate IF it achieves a "better" finish during the buffing process, buffing referring to both correcting with a compound and then following by polishing with a polish. The "theory" is attributed to Autopian resident physicist and Meguiar product guru Kevin Brown that a smaller diameter pad on a short-throw DA-RO will have a mechanical advantage over a larger diameter pad and more of the DA-RO buffing machine "force" [the mechanical application of the machine`s motor power to the pad. Remember that MOST small-throw DA-RO buffers have small-wattage (less than 500 watt) motors. That is NOT the case with your G9, which has 900 watts, which is WHY is comes with a 6" backing plate!] is transferred to the edge of the pad and not lost in deflection or the bending of pad edge as one buffs with it. It is also easier to control the action of the smaller diameter pad because the faster-spinning edge of a larger pad tends to "walk" away from the buffer operator and how it may "grab" styling contours (concave curves) of exterior sheet metal panels. It is also "easier" to access those tight or small radiused curves with a smaller pad diameter. That is the science and logic behind using a smaller pad diameter on a short throw DA-RO.

[nothingface5384]

Makita PO5000C woth LC thin pros
Also get a griot HD 3in backing plate and some LC force pads(HDO will work too) for when you need it to be a 3in