Wait 12 hours for wax after Jetseal?

[Accumulator]

This thread came to mind IRL the other day when I recommended that somebody *NOT* try the Meg`s HCW, so I`m grateful for the info though I sure hate it that Mustang19 is going through such [crap].

[roscopervis]

I think the problem here is the Jetseal. You`re trying to put the more durable product on a less durable product. It doesn`t make sense. You would be better off putting the Megs HCW dry on the bare clean paint first (apply by spraying into a microfiber and wiping) then taking it off with a damp towel, then final buff with a dry towel. Then in future, apply the HCW with a couple of sprays and rinsing off aka the wet way.

Megs HCW is a far superior product compared to Jetseal so just forget about it as it is probably that complicating the issue.

[Accumulator]

I think the problem here is the Jetseal. You`re trying to put the more durable product on a less durable product. It doesn`t make sense..

Although IME that can still work perfectly well; I generally apply my LSPs (including the FK1000P from which I get incredible durability) over top of stuff that doesn`t last long on its own..I`ve basically always done that since the M07/M16 combo back in the `70s, and I can`t think of one time that it`s actually decreased the durability...I bet it must`ve happened *some time*...and I have tried combos that just weren`t compatible..but in the general sense it`s never actually worked out that way for me.

NOT flaming or arguing, and it might be one of those weird YMMV! situations, but right off-hand I can`t even remember the last time I LSPed bare paint and it just doesn`t bite me.

[roscopervis]

If that`s what works for you, then great. One thing I would ask though is what does the less durable product underneath offer to make doing it a worthwhile exercise? Does it add to the visual appearance? Science wise, products that cure onto the paint and create a bond, something that FK1000P does, would normally always achieve a stronger cure upon clean bare paint. The only time this may not be true is if a LSP required a primer layer, a bit like the Si02 that CarPro Essence Plus leaves behind which allows a coating to bond afterwards.

In the Jetseal case, you have a hydrophilic acrylic product which I would suspect the HCW is struggling to work with. HCW is, for all intents and purposes a sealant also, but with a different chemistry that I think struggles to work on the Jetseal.

I know Jetseal has its fans and it is glossy, but just like many of Chemical Guys` protection products, it just doesn`t have the performance to justify the cost.

[Accumulator]

roscopervis- Could well be that, for the reasons you mentioned, the JetSeal and HCW simply aren`t compatible (at least in that sequence).

FWIW, I did (uhm..of course..) properly/objectively compare the durability of my LSPs on bare paint vs. on top of [my penultimate products] to verify there was no discernible difference (sorry if I`m stating the obvious, dunno how familiar you are with my approaches to things..).

I usually prefer using an AIO or a leaves-stuff-behind Finishing Polish before my LSPs. I find them very user-friendly and the appearance never suffers as compared to using other Finishing Polishes/etc. It`s *VERY* rare that I require the cut of even something like M205.HD Polish or even 1Z High Gloss, so using something much milder like the old 1Z Pro MetallicPolish or WaxPolishSoft is a quick/easy..i.e., utterly foolproof way to prep for LSP. And it saves me from having to strip Polishing Oils, which I find more bothersome than many do.

Not that I do *anything* except wash/reLSP 99% of the time. I go years without touching a polisher and am utterly disappointed if I have to get one out as it indicates some kind of FAIL, generally on my part

IF a vehicle requires correction I might approach it differently (not like I`m locked into any single approach), but that`s so rare as to basically not be a concern.

EDIT: back when Klasse Sealant Glaze was more popular, *everybody* applied it over top of Klasse AIO, and users of AutoGlym`s Super Resin Polish and their LSP (the name of which escapes me at present..) did the same thing. It was basically unheard of for anybody to apply either on bare paint (for reasons I never understood, but anyhow..) and when I tested the KSG by itself there was *zero* diff compared to putting it on top of the short-lived KAIO. Just offering those AIO + LSP combos as examples...

[roscopervis]

roscopervis- Could well be that, for the reasons you mentioned, the JetSeal and HCW simply aren`t compatible (at least in that sequence).

FWIW, I did (uhm..of course..) properly/objectively compare the durability of my LSPs on bare paint vs. on top of [my penultimate products] to verify there was no discernible difference (sorry if I`m stating the obvious, dunno how familiar you are with my approaches to things..).

I usually prefer using an AIO or a leaves-stuff-behind Finishing Polish before my LSPs. I find them very user-friendly and the appearance never suffers as compared to using other Finishing Polishes/etc. It`s *VERY* rare that I require the cut of even something like M205.HD Polish or even 1Z High Gloss, so using something much milder like the old 1Z Pro MetallicPolish or WaxPolishSoft is a quick/easy..i.e., utterly foolproof way to prep for LSP. And it saves me from having to strip Polishing Oils, which I find more bothersome than many do.

Not that I do *anything* except wash/reLSP 99% of the time. I go years without touching a polisher and am utterly disappointed if I have to get one out as it indicates some kind of FAIL, generally on my part

IF a vehicle requires correction I might approach it differently (not like I`m locked into any single approach), but that`s so rare as to basically not be a concern.

EDIT: back when Klasse Sealant Glaze was more popular, *everybody* applied it over top of Klasse AIO, and users of AutoGlym`s Super Resin Polish and their LSP (the name of which escapes me at present..) did the same thing. It was basically unheard of for anybody to apply either on bare paint (for reasons I never understood, but anyhow..) and when I tested the KSG by itself there was *zero* diff compared to putting it on top of the short-lived KAIO. Just offering those AIO + LSP combos as examples...

Ahhh I see. I`m not fully aware of your approaches to things, but I got your `light tough` approach and I think I`ve now understood where you`re coming from with the use of products under FK1000P. The Autoglym example of SRP is Extra Gloss Protection (EGP) sealant, though their new waxes are better products - HD Wax and now UHD Wax are really very good. In the UK, Bilt Hamber is a company that produces understated but excellent and good value products. They have a similar product to SRP called Cleanser Polish that I think works a bit better. There are a few of these AIO`s that work well as base products for certain sealant based LSP`s as their resinous/acrylic/sealant base allows a decent bond to be made. I have no particular problem with that, it`s a procedure that is well established .

I was commenting more upon the layering of two, distinct LSP`s, particularly where there appears to be no real method or madness to why things are being done that way.

Referring back to the UK, there has been a big trend for a few years to use Soft99 Fusso as base and then top with Soft99 King of Gloss (KOG) Soft99 have probably designed them to work together, if using the correct products, but using the light or white version of KOG has cleaners in which will remove the base layer making the base of Fusso pointless. Even if the combo is ok, I don`t think that KOG is appreciably more glossy, particularly after the first wash to make the practice worthwhile. Especially as the durability and water behaviour of KOG is worse than that of Fusso - 2 coats of Fusso would be a better option (or even 2 of KOG). However, putting KOG as the base layer and Fusso as the top coat would be illogical as KOG uses mineral oils (in part) to provide the gloss) and Fusso needs to bond to something approaching bare paint for it to offer its party piece of durability and water behaviour for any length of time. Without the bond, the strong solvents in Fusso will degrade KOG and will offer a very short term unstable base meaning both products would be unsatisfying.

This would be an extreme example, but is what I was trying to explain what might be happening in the Jetseal/HCW case and is why I was wondering what you were doing. However, the use of an AIO compared to a less durable LSP with different chemistry is quite different I think.

[Accumulator]

Ahhh I see. I`m not fully aware of your approaches to things, but I got your `light tough` approach and I think I`ve now understood where you`re coming from with the use of products under FK1000P...

Yeah, I agree that how you go about such stuff can make all the difference.

The Autoglym example of SRP is Extra Gloss Protection (EGP) sealant..

Thanks for confirming; that came to be about an hour after I`d logged off, but I still wasn`t certain. Oddly enough, I just *never* tried that stuff!

..though..[Autoglym`s].. new waxes are better products - HD Wax and now UHD Wax are really very good...

Ah, progress, huh? Unlike Klasse, who just keep selling the dame Sealant Glaze for their combo (at least AFAIK).

In the UK, Bilt Hamber is a company that produces understated but excellent and good value products. They have a similar product to SRP called Cleanser Polish that I think works a bit better.

Ah, that`s a brand I`ve heard about (especially their Auto Balm) but never tried.

I believe you that their Cleanser Polish beats SRP...I only use my SRP rarely these days, but have enough for this lifetime and have always liked it, if only for the terpentiney scent. I`m always surprised that it doesn`t dry out/go bad, I`ve had it for *decades* now and even though it separates/etc. and can seem awfuol, it still *works* the same (just like my Klasse AIO from the `90s still does!).

There are a few of these AIO`s that work well as base products for certain sealant based LSP`s as their resinous/acrylic/sealant base allows a decent bond to be made. I have no particular problem with that, it`s a procedure that is well established .

I`ve possibly just stumbled across a series of such combinations that all worked fine.

I was commenting more upon the layering of two, distinct LSP`s, particularly where there appears to be no real method or madness to why things are being done that way.

I agree there too, especially about how people do such things for, uhm..questionable reasons, although I guess intellectual curiosity might explain it.

About the only time I`ve done that and liked it enough to continue was when I used Collinite`s 476S and 845 in different combinations. That was mainly about wanting compatible liquid and paste waxes for specific reasons.

Referring back to the UK, there has been a big trend for a few years to use Soft99 Fusso as base and then top with Soft99 King of Gloss (KOG) Soft99 have probably designed them to work together, if using the correct products, but using the light or white version of KOG has cleaners in which will remove the base layer making the base of Fusso pointless.

That`s a perfect example of how people do goofy things that fly in the face of reason

Soft99 is another brand I`ve thought about, but never tried...

I was wondering what you were doing. However, the use of an AIO compared to a less durable LSP with different chemistry is quite different I think.

Now it all makes sense And I kinda lump Cleaner Waxes, AIOs, and my leave-stuff-behind Finishing Polishes in the same category. The 1Z products have been off the US market for so long I bet nobody else uses them.

[atbalfour]

Product synergy is pretty important to get any sort of durability from your LSPs. While my experiences have mirrored Rosco`s, I also find some products just do not adhere to the more durable product (in my case CSL/Exo) for any length of time, for example.

[Accumulator]

atbalfour- Ya know, it might not be a bad idea for us to have a list of INcompatible products.

The only Major FAIL combos I can recall were: washing Collinite with the v1.0 version of ONR; trying to put UPP over top of 1Z Pro Metallic Polish (I sure don`t expect anybody else to even have that stuff any more); and the time I wiped down (relatively fresh) 476S with FK425. There`ve probably been others, but I`m not thinking of `em.

Somebody found that applying Souveran over top of 476S messed up the latter, something that surprised me.