Shampoo for a more deep clean not a normal maintenance wash

[Bill D]

I think in that case people are just too impatient for the product to work ideally.

[Accumulator]

Ron Ketcham- Hey, while we`re discussing this and before I forget...would either "A" or "B" be UNsafe to use on compromised aluminum trim?

Whatever clear coating Audi used on the A8/S8`s exterior trim (they`ve given me contradictory answers about just what it is..) has become slightly compromised and with the increased porosity of that topcoat the underlying aluminum gets slightly cloudy. I`m hesitant to get remotely aggressive with it lest I make a bad situation worse, and I figured better safe than sorry with regard to even using ABC on those cars (not that they really need it anyhow..).

I realize that`s a pretty loaded Q, but I`d sure appreciate your best guess.

[Ron Ketcham]

Been the same issue for Audi, BMW, VW, etc for a couple of decades. The ABC is not the reason, and we saw this on hundreds of these vehicles that had never been predelivered before arriving at the ValuGard Vehicle Processing Centers.
They had only set out in rail head storage yards for a few weeks.
The vendors of the parts are the only ones who know "what is what".

[Astouffer512]

Where does one purchase the ValuGard ABC kit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bill D]

You can get it from the Valugard website. If you google Valugard ABC you should find it. My understanding is you have to order it by phone calling Valugard/ Automotive International directly.

[TheMeanGreen]

Plastizers are an acid based additive in today`s modern paint system. There are NO oils as such present, only highly refined, special hydrocarbon solvents. Use of high alkaline cleaners attack and remove a percentage of the plastizers. The plastizers provide brightness of color and some flexibility to the paint. One can see the result of applying a high caustic alkaline product to the paint as it will start to appear "dull".
There is of course, more to this, however is very involved and highly technical, and do not wish to spend hours attempting to explain further.

So, based on your statement, I am lead to ask if it would, in theory, be more advantageous to wash with the ValueGuard ABC system a few times a year, versus washing a vehicle, every third or fourth wash, with some form of an alkaline car wash?

In theory, would it be possible to restore a *waxed look* into a dull finish with the ABC system, a dull finish lacking the plastizers to begin with? Or does the ABC system in theory take out a *given* amount of plastizers and feed back in the *given* amount into the paint system? Can the ABC system add back in what is lacking, or is the ABC system only capable of adding back in what was originally taken out when ABC system process began?

[TheMeanGreen]

Bill, you are the rare one.
Most will not read, follow, etc as for some reason they believe because they have washed and polished a couple of vehicles, etc, they are bullet proof experts.

I`ve watched the video`s, they are much easier to comprehend than some elementary steps of basic algebra. The video`s definitely seem like they are geared towards the lay-man.

[Ron Ketcham]

As I stated very technical, very involed, sorry not going to write the volumes it would take to cover all the variables.

[TheMeanGreen]

As I stated very technical, very involed, sorry not going to write the volumes it would take to cover all the variables.

There are no broad generalizations that can be made from this?:

"So, based on your statement, I am lead to ask if it would, in theory, be more advantageous to wash with the ValueGuard ABC system a few times a year, versus washing a vehicle, every third or fourth wash, with some form of an alkaline car wash?

In theory, would it be possible to restore a *waxed look* into a dull finish with the ABC system, a dull finish lacking the plastizers to begin with? Or does the ABC system in theory take out a *given* amount of plastizers and feed back in the *given* amount into the paint system? Can the ABC system add back in what is lacking, or is the ABC system only capable of adding back in what was originally taken out when ABC system process began?"

I know theories can be quite different from reality. I am sure every situation will be different, and the exact outcome may be dependent on the specific moment? Are these questions that can be answered by the ValueGuard Customer Service department?

These next questions, can they be answered in generalized form or do they require specifics for conclusion determination? Is there any benefit (generally) to using the ABC System twice, in the same day of time, on one single vehicle? Or generally speaking, is one application enough? OR, specifically, does the determination of the second usage come down to the Exact vehicle in question?

[Accumulator]

Is there any benefit (generally) to using the ABC System twice, in the same day of time, on one single vehicle? Or generally peaking, is one application enough? OR, specifically, does the determination of the second usage come down to the Exact vehicle in question?

The "A" and "B" are so mild that sometimes it is necessary to repeat those steps. That`s why I resorted to FK1119 on two cars and have had to clay while the "B" was dwelling (after two tries without clay didn`t remove rust-blooms).

I could`ve probably/?maybe? just let the "A" and "B" dwell longer, but I did follow the directions to that extent (I realize it probably sounds like I`m playing fast-and-loose with the stuff, but I`ve used it per directions more often than not).

I`ve watched the video`s, they are much easier to comprehend than some elementary steps of basic algebra. The video`s definitely seem like they are geared towards the lay-man.

Yes, very simple. Consider that many New Car Prep guys might consider basic Algebra incomprehensible (the ones I worked with sure would`ve); this stuff has to be safe enough that the dullest knife in the drawer doesn`t mess up a new car with it.

At the risk of sounding like a [jerk], why would somebody need to wash with something really potent several times a year? I`d just switch LSPs or something...although I could understand if it`s some unusual situation like parking beside a chemical plant or somesuch.

[Bill D]

I always sucked at math and I find ABC to be a breeze to use.

[Accumulator]

Yeah, it *is* that easy, which is why I`m always suggesting it instead of clay/etc.

But I`m still afraid to let it touch those compromised aluminum bits on the Audis..kinda a deal-breaker for me (heh heh, ironic yes? Given my frequent recommendations) as there`s no practical way to keep it off of them. I suspect the solution would be to use some other product, the "non-acidic" ones that others are selling come to mind, though I`ve never gone that route (I didn`t understand how they could be effective without acids until members here discussed the topic).

[Accumulator]

I always sucked at math ...

Heard that from my students all the time. Experienced it myself as a kid until I decided to grab my own reins instead of relying on "teachers" (scare-quotes intentional).

You just needed better teachers, or a good way to autodidact it. It`s pure logic, easy-peasy for a bright guy like you, it just has to be explained right

Sorry for the off-topic rant, but I always had to waste, uhm...I mean "spend"... a lot of time teaching remedial math instead of the actual subject matter as the students couldn`t do my stuff without the right knowledge base and I refused to dumb things down the way others did.

[Bill D]

Thanks very much for your reply. I’ll PM you further as to not take the thread too far off topic.

[Lonnie]

Speaking of math and detailing, how many professional and hobbyist detailers REALLY measure soaps into a bucket when washing and then add the specific amount of water for the soap-to water specified ratio on the label. I guess and eye-ball it. I have put my bulk gallon soaps into squeeze bottles to "better" control the dispensed amounts.

As a side note (or More Than You Really Wanted To Know) here is some info about product ratio math I wrote and cut-and-pasted from another thread:
Dilution ratios require some "algebra" math to get the "correct" ratio for the mixed solution of product-to-water. For example:
A common ratio of 1:4 is really 5 parts: 1 part product and 4 parts water. That means that a 32 oz bottle of mixed solution is really 6.4 oz of product and 25.6 oz of water to get 32 oz. This "math" applies to ANY solution ratio. A 1:10 ratio is really 11 parts, a 1:8 ration is really 9 parts, (etc.) So , if you divide your bottle size or final oz quantity desired by the parts number (IE, ratio sum), you will get the amount (oz) of product needed for that ratio mixer.
I also think that this is why many manufacturers suggest odd-numbered ratios like 1:3 or 1:7, because it becomes a summed even-number of TOTAL mixture parts: IE, 1:3 ratio for a quart (32 oz) is 8 oz of chemical and 24 oz of water.), 8 into 24 = 3 and 8 + 24 = 32.

One other factor in mixing chemicals into water is to do just that: pour in the water FIRST, then the chemical. This is a high school chemistry lab safety practice as it allows the water to dilute the chemical as it is poured in. If it is done in reverse, exothermic (heat) reactions caused by chemical reactions between the water and the chemical can occur, causing the chemical to boil out of the container. This is very true of any strong acid (like sulfuric acid) and water.
How do I know?? I did this in high school by pouring this acid into a large test tube and then trying to dilute it with water. The acid immediately boiled out of the test tube, ruining a new high school track team shirt I had on and causing minor burns to my shoulder, even after the quick application baking soda to neutralize the acid. It could have been much worse had it gotten on my face. (These were the days before rubber gloves and face shields where required in high school labs.) Needless to say, it is a chemical mixing safety lesson I have NOT forgotten. This is especially true using Meg`s Detailer Line D140 Wheel Brightener, which is highly acidic. I would also implore you to use safety eye goggles or plastic glasses when mixing, as the inadvertent splash of chemical into the eyes can be avoided this way. As the saying goes, "Safety is no accident".

I use a 1-quart Pyrex mixing bowl when mixing car-care products from bulk gallon containers with water to pour into spray bottles. Makes for easy mixing and measuring the product-to-water ratio and pouring into 16 oz or 32 oz. spray bottles. Just remember to wash out the Pyrex bowl so as not to contaminate the next product being mixing.