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  1. #16

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    Lonnie- Other way around on the components of ABC (not that I think it matters):

    -A = Step One = Acid Neutralizing Alakline Product
    -B = Step Two = Alkaline Neutralizing Acidic Product
    -C = Step 3 = Neutral ph Shampoo

    Bill D- Between the hassle of finding it, and those gallon-size jugs....just not geared towards the non-Pro.

    IIRC they use to sell smaller bottles with OEM labels, but I dunno if they still do.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    Yes that is basically the same article. The problem with acids and alkaline products is what do they do to the clear. I’ve never had trouble with cutting and baking. Usually only need to do it once.

  3. #18
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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    Interesting thread. I don’t believe I’ve heard of acid etching reappearing. Learned something new. I hope I never run into it.

  4. #19

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    Keep in mind, not just acid etching, waterspots , bird dropping’s and tree sap stains as well as anything that has sat on the surface long enough to penetrate deeply will do the same.
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  5. #20

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Lonnie- Other way around on the components of ABC (not that I think it matters):

    -A = Step One = Acid Neutralizing Alakline Product
    -B = Step Two = Alkaline Neutralizing Acidic Product
    -C = Step 3 = Neutral ph Shampoo

    Bill D- Between the hassle of finding it, and those gallon-size jugs....just not geared towards the non-Pro.

    IIRC they use to sell smaller bottles with OEM labels, but I dunno if they still do.
    Hmm I thought it would be a solvent based cleaner in it too. To desolve tar spots and tree sap and other contaminants. Solvents are ph neutral but don`t know how effective they are to neutralise.

    What a nightmare to see the acid residue coming back. Is it actually etching the paint again when they get reactivated? Or is it the acid liquid that comes back up to the surface again?

    Would it be an option to use something like distilled water and lay a towel over where the etching or acid is. And have on for a longer time and re-wet it and move the towel to soak up as much as possible. Just thinking out loud. And maybe have it in the sun or get some heat to it or even pour some hot water over the towel.

  6. #21

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    First off, thanks to Accumulator on getting the ValuGard decontamination steps in the correct order. Yes, it does make a difference or why would they put Step One on the alkaline cleaner.

    As a parallel to this acid etching, is there enough permeability in a coating or sealant to allow water at a molecular level into the area that has had deep etching to reappear in the presence of heat, OR is water coming in on the underside of the painted material, be it metal, fiberglass, plastic, or carbon fiber? Probably the latter.
    I just wonder if washing with a stronger alkaline soap would take care of this or even washing/rinsing with baking soda and water mixture might take care of this re-occurrence of acid etching. Probably not.
    I must concur with Mike Lambert`s methodology of reheating the etched area and re-correcting may be the best, and possibly the ONLY true solution to this detailing conundrum. The caveat is that without an accurate (and somewhat expensive, at least for a hobbyist) Paint Thickness Gauge to measure how much clear-coat and paint is REALLY there, especially with today`s eco-friendly, cost-saving, ultra-thin clear-coat & paint manufacturing (PHEWW!), you could do some real damage to the area, albeit with the best intentions of getting rid of the reappearing etching.

    I would conclude that prevention is the best protection from natural acid etching, which is another reason WHY so many of my fellow Autopians are coating their vehicles. I also think this debunks the myth that with modern clear-coats you do not need to wax or seal your vehicle`s finish. Vehicle owner`s need to put on the last layer of protection that is not present (or in short supply from the manufacturer!) on their new (or almost new) vehicle

    Now WHICH coatings offer the best protection and you-get-what-you-pay-for is a whole different subject and the fodder for another thread topic that someone else can start. But I digress....
    GB detailer

  7. #22

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    Lonnie- Hope I didn`t come across as all pedantic

    But I think I erred about "it probably doesn`t matter", at least for a vehicle in real "before" condition. You do want to do the alkaline step first since it does the vast majority of the cleaning. Then if you need to do some agitation during the "B"/acidic step there won`t be a lot of abrasive dirt-stuff on the paint.

    Quote Originally Posted by SWETM View Post
    Hmm I thought it would be a solvent based cleaner in it too. To desolve tar spots and tree sap and other contaminants..
    The FK1119 that competed with "A" had solvents in it, and it was more effective IME. Also much nastier stuff and it`s off the market now AFAIK.

    IME the "A" does well on tar even without solvents, but I`ve never really put it to a big test in that regard.
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  8. #23

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    The ABC System is not formulated to remove asphalt/tar deposits. That is done with a seperate product formulated for such, New Car Prep, which is a hydrocarbon based product.
    No where, in any of the Technical Service Bulletins by the vehicle manufacturers, is the ABC System intended for tar removal. Entirely different chemistry is required or did everyone miss this in the published instructions?
    The system has been in use around the world since late 1996 and used on well over a few million vehicles so something is right about it.
    "Logic dictates I have been at this detailing thing way too many years!":wink1:
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  9. #24
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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    I just checked the price, $55.99 for the 3 gallons and a wash mitt. Not bad at all. The shampoo is only $3.65 per gallon. Pretty inexpensive for detailing equipment.
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  10. #25

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    The kit has two 9x9 wash mitts, one for A, one for C. The B uses the supplied pad, and the B is very lubricating so no marring, however the VG-IS pad "pulls" the imbedded ferrous particles that have not totally desolved, up from the pit their acids have created. Watch the "how to use" video on their web site and DO NOT attempt to short cut the process or subsitute other products or out guess decades of proven successful uses.
    "Logic dictates I have been at this detailing thing way too many years!":wink1:

  11. #26

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Ketcham View Post
    The ABC System is not formulated to remove asphalt/tar deposits. That is done with a seperate product formulated for such, New Car Prep, which is a hydrocarbon based product..Entirely different chemistry is required..did everyone miss this in the published instructions?
    Guilty as charged [Accumulator sheepishly remembers that gallon of New Car Prep on the top shelf..]

    Guess I mixed the "A" up with FK1119, which *did* strip off everything...Tar, asphalt, and even lane-line paint.. for me.

    Apologies, it`s been years since I`ve had to decontaminate anything.

  12. #27

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    The shampoo is only $3.65 per gallon. Pretty inexpensive for detailing equipment.
    The smart-[aleck] in me wants to quip that you get what you pay for. I really wanted to like "C", and I *DO* dig the green color, but it`s lubricity/encapsulation just weren`t what I want. Fine for use after "A" and "B" though, just not a premium shampoo like some other options.

  13. #28

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    Re: Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Ketcham View Post
    The kit has two 9x9 wash mitts, one for A, one for C. The B uses the supplied pad, and the B is very lubricating so no marring, however the VG-IS pad "pulls" the imbedded ferrous particles that have not totally desolved, up from the pit their acids have created..
    Ah, the Two Mitts and the bottle for "B" are new since I got mine. That *is* a reasonable price, considering how much you can spend on other such products without ABC`s track record.

    I never thought the VG-IS pad would *really* be autopaint-safe, but it didn`t mar the previous Crown Vic (typical Ford medium-medium hardness paint).

    .. DO NOT attempt to short cut the process or subsitute other products or out guess decades of proven successful uses
    Yes indeed, my ears are burning, guilty as charged there too I`ve violated Ketch`s "don`t substitute" by using clay instead of the VG-IS pad. Worked fine and much faster, but sure ate up the clay fast and shouldn`t be necessary unless you`re dealing with some really nasty issues. Eh, I`ve always found "B" to be very, very mild (undoubtedly with good reason, but still..).

 

 
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