automatic car wash safer than hand wash?

[sade04]

hey guys, im pretty new to this website. Ive pretty much been lurking around trying to learn as much as i can. I do plan on buying a pc around spring time once the weather warms up. I came across this thread over on the megs site. http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/sho...?threadid=6318

If you go down to the 11th post by "enthusiast detailer", he`s got some interesting info about hand washing vs. machine washing. I just want to know what you guys have to say about it. Thanks

[TrueDetailer]

HERE IS THE POST FROM THE MEGS SITE.


First, the foaming gun you refer to is available in the USA from a US manufacturer. Been available on the market for years.

Second, whoever posted the point of spraying the car with foam and then using a mitt is correct, you could scratch the paint.

The foam will put the chemical on the car to breakdown and emulsify the dirt and road film, but you do need friction to remove.

And, to prevent the grit from scratching the paint you need a great deal of water to act as a barrier between the mitt and the paint surface.

This is what the Technical University of Munich (backed by a similiar test done by the University of Texas) concluded in the test they conducted for Mercedes Benz a few years ago to determine which is more harmful for the paint finish, machine washing or hand washing.

In the test they washed a car by hand 26 times and by automatic machine 26 times (and when the test was taken they used an automatic with plastic bristles not today`s soft cloth or foam) and then took microscopic photos of the paint finish and determined that the hand washed vehicle hand far more uneven and deeper scratches than the machine washed vehicle.

Why?

First, the mitt/sponge immediately picked up grit when placed on the paint the initial time and this then acted like sandpaper each time it was used on the car during the wash process.

The carwash machine whose brushes are bombarded with water and shampoo during the wash process first, washed away the grit and second provided a barrier between the mitt/sponge and the paint.

Conclusion, if you are going to hand wash you need to keep water between your mitt and the paint when washing. The testors concluded you should have the mitt in one hand and a running water hose in the other to duplicate what you have in an automatic carwash.

Hope that helps.

Bud Abraham

[TrueDetailer]

He does make a few good points, but i don`t think anyone on this site who knows better would wash their car 26 times without at least waxing it. In the long run hand washing your car and keeping it protected is the best way to keep it looking good.

[Beercan31]

There are so many levels of detailing, some are limited by one`s experience/ knowledge, while other are limited but there finances. Bud Abraham is a bit of a purest when it comes to detailing, if we followed his way nobody would be able to touch a veh. with out being certified.

Bill D has some good points in his responses.

[Miami_Sunset]

I would love a foam gun like that it would make washing so freaking good...& smooooooth.... Where can i buy one... :yes: Also after reading that im assuming that they did not use the two-three bucket method or did they ? :eat:

[jaybs02]

There are good points made by both Bud and Bill.
So take your time use 2 buckets and rinse you mitt frequently. Also keep a good layer of protection on your vehicle to aid in its clean up.

"J"

[Brenton]

I`d like to see a link about the methodology used by the study. What method was used in the hand washing? What kind of mitts? Soaps? Rinses?
And does the study really exist? is there a link
I`ve wondered if spray washes is safer, but never abrasive washes.

[jaybs02]

The statement that Bud made was originally made back in 02`, so the study was done "a few years" before that.
Paints have changed of the years, and so have the products that we use to clean them.
I wonder if the same results would hold true today.

"J"

[Antonio Waxer]

I think Bud , who works for a company that supplies the products for the drive thru car wash industry, is slightly biased in his approaches
No one washes a car that is dry and most people will dip their mitt as needed depending on how much dirt is on the vehicle. Having a foam gun to add more soap (for cleaning and lubrication), having multiple mitts and then buckets of clean water to clean the mitts as they become dirty is more than enough.
One more point to be made is that water is not a lubricant, only when mixed with a soap does it become a lubricant and that is what I suppose a foam gun does(mixes water and soap) .

[Spilchy]

I think Bud is completely missing the boat when it comes to understanding the foam gun that we enthusiasts use. He is basing his opinion (not only on his bias) but the picture in the begining of the thread. I think he sees a dry car that is being sprayed with just foam and then wiped with a mitt without being dunked in water.

What he needs to understand (and from his posts he doesn`t seem to) is that the enthusiast foam gun works differently than that picture. There is PLENTY of water in the guns we use that is released when turned on. Plus, in his post to BillD, he seems to think we don`t know how to wash a car.

If I may post a thread from Autopia to show the foam gun in use as well know it. You will see (as we all know) there is plenty of water and lubrication on the surface to conduct a 2 bucket wash. (Look a the foam from the PB SSS!!)

http://autopia.org/forum/showthread....light=foam+gun

For a majority of us we:

1) PRE-RINSE the vehicle with a hose or pressure washer to release surface dirt. (It doesn`t apear that way in the MOL picture, but we can be certain)
2) Fill 2 buckets of water, one with soap, one with just water (does Bud know this?)
3) Use the foam gun to hose down a section which contains loads of water, not just foam like that picture (Bud should look at the Autopia thread)
4) Use the wash mitt dipped in soapy water to wash the section that just received the soapy water mixture from the foam gun
5) Dunk mitt in clean water to release dirt and repeat steps 1 - 4 for the next section.
6) Rinse with a free flow of water (or rinse after each panel)

Others like BillD (which Bud still disputes) use a more involved process, further proving how EFFECTIVE the foam gun is, contrary to Bud`s claims.

He further states he has been tunnel washing for years without noticing scratches. I feel safe in betting that not a single person on any detailing forum would believe that as we ALL have seen the affects tunnel washings have with micromarring and spider web swirls. He seems to think not washng your car causes swirls, not the tools at the car wash (also false).

He`s an accomplished professional, no doubt about it. But, I think he is off the mark when it comes to the foam gun in practice.

[Bob]

The car was industry is freaking about Nissans claims that car washes scratch paint. I am sure you will see a bunch of articles like this coming up in the future.

[Beercan31]

Yeh know in the "real World" there is not a chemical nor a process out there that will eliminate micromarring during the wash cycle, If there were you`d see the end of a lot of polishes and one rich SOB.

Regardless how many times you pre-rinse/ Power wash (another of my pet peeves) there is still residue left behind, I`m not going to talk Theory, but just from the practical common sense point of view, what ever your washing method is as soon as your washing mitt touches the surface and swipes, you just micromarred regardless what product you use. Any time to items come in contact with another there will be some sort of transfer reguardless how much water you put on it. the mitt will have to physically touch dust, dirt, silt to break its static cling from the surface where the soap will help suspend the particle and stop it from reattaching it self to the finish.

if you think that soap releases the dust/dirt then try this on a dark color, pre-rinse, spray with a soap/water solution, rinse and allow to dry untouched. you will not like what you see.

Adding soap to water will not stop your washing mitt from touching the finish of your veh or dragging debris along it`s finish.

[RTexasF]

The car washes here are all water pressure guided by a laser system. I haven`t seen a brush car wash in a decade or more. I use them for a quick rinse off if a hand wash isn`t called for.

[Detail_Geek]

Id rather wash the car with the automiatic one rather then the spinning brushes :yes: